Activists in Israel...

[Mo]

A 21-year-old Palestinian was killed Saturday by Israel Defense Forces gunfire in the West Bank town of Dahariya, south of Hebron, Israel Radio reported.

The IDF said that it was checking the report, the radio reported.

On Friday, IDF troops firing from a tank critically wounded a British man as he and other activists in a pro-Palestinian group approached an army position on the edge of a Gaza refugee camp, witnesses said.

Thomas Hurndall, 21, from Manchester, suffered a head injury that left him comatose and hooked up to a respirator, said Shira Chen, a spokeswoman at Soroka Hospital in Be'er Sheva. It was unclear whether there was any brain activity. His condition was described as serious but stable.

He was the second foreigner to be injured in a week. A third member of the group, the International Solidarity Movement, was killed while trying to stop an IDF bulldozer a month ago, near where Hurndall was shot Friday.

Military sources said early Sunday that according to an initial investigation on the incident, soldiers claim that they shot at a man wearing a camouflage uniform seen opening fire and advancing towards their position.

Israel has said Palestinian gunmen often use civilians as human shields and thus endanger them.

Friday's incident began when about a dozen members of the International Solidarity Movement, including foreigners and Palestinians, walked toward IDF tanks on the outskirts of the Rafah refugee camp, near the border with Egypt, said Khalil Hamra, a photographer on assignment for The Associated Press.

The tanks patrol a road used by the army for incursions into the camp. The activists wanted to set up a protest tent on the road, in an attempt to block incursions, said Hamra and Khalil Abdullah, a Palestinian who works with the group but who is not a member.

Along the way, the protesters were joined by several children, the witnesses said. When the group was about 200 yards away from three tanks, soldiers opened fire from a tank-mounted machine gun, the witnesses said.

Hurndall and another foreign activist tried to get two children out of the line of fire, Hamra and Abdullah said. "Thomas grabbed one of their hands and as soon as he did that a tank fired at him, hitting him in the head," Hamra said.

The photographer said the children were not throwing rocks at the troops and that he saw nothing that would have provoked the troops.

Hurndall was declared brain dead after arriving at Rafah Hospital, said Dr. Ali Musa. He was later transferred to Soroka Medical Center in Be'er Sheva.

Rafah has been a flashpoint of clashes between IDF troops and Palestinians. Troops have repeatedly raided the camp, demolishing scores of houses the army said were used by Palestinian gunmen as firing positions.

A few blocks from where Friday's shooting occurred, American activist Rachel Corrie, 23, was killed on March 16 while trying to stop an IDF bulldozer.

Witnesses said the bulldozer ran her over and then backed up. The army said the driver did not see her and that her death was an accident. Corrie, a student in Olympia, Washington, was the first member of the group to be killed in 30 months of fighting between Israelis and Palestinians.

Last week, Bryan Avery, 24, from Albuquerque, New Mexico, was shot in the face while walking with a fellow activist in the West Bank town of Jenin. Witnesses said he was wounded by IDF fire. The IDF said it was firing at gunmen in the area and was not aware it hit Avery.

It's a bit odd to see that it is American and UK activists the ones to pay with their lives for the Israeli criminal ethnic cleansing of Palestine...

[who won]

Recently released studies by Amnesty International (AI) and the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) confirm that the majority of Israelis and others killed by Palestinians since September 27, 2000 were non-combatants killed intentionally. Amnesty International found that "The attacks against civilians by Palestinian armed groups are widespread, systematic and in pursuit of an explicit policy to attack civilians. They therefore constitute crimes against humanity under international law."

In contrast to the intentional targeting of Israeli civilians by Palestinians, the study found that "the majority of Palestinians and others killed by Israel since September 2000 were either Full Combatants, Probable Combatants, or Violent Protestors". Only 16.1% of Palestinian fatalities could be classified as definite non-combatants. The ICT study also found that less than 5% of the Palestinians killed by Israel were female, while 30% of the Israelis killed by Palestinians were female.

The Palestinian fatalities were more than 95% male and the ages of the Palestinians killed were overwhelmingly between 15 and 29. ICT concluded that "The pattern of Palestinian deaths is completely inconsistent with accusations that Israel has committed random attacks on residential areas, mixed-sex crowds at roadblocks, or other ordinary civilian gatherings".

"Israeli fatalities do not show such a high regularity in their age or gender distribution. Population segments like women or older people would not normally be specifically targeted for their military importance; thus their higher relative prevalence among Israeli fatalities is an indication of the degree to which [Israeli fatalities] were caused by random attacks on a civilian population. "

Amnesty International's study concurred with this conclusion. It noted that "The great majority of [Israeli] civilians were killed in direct or indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian objects: the perpetrator targeted someone who they knew was not a member of the armed forces, or attacked a group of people among whom there were clearly many civilians."

Amnesty, whose study included data up until May 31, 2002, concluded that over 70% of Israelis (and foreign workers) killed by the Palestinians were civilians.

[Mo]

Thomas Hurndall's mum appeared on the telly hugging the child he was trying to bring to safety when he was shot in the head.
If an screaming girl silenced down by a bulldozer and a couple of running men shot in the face/head are violent, I'd call the forces that silenced them criminal.

[who]

I'd call them mistakes.

What would you call the suicide bombers and their many supporters who intentionally kill men women and children and babies in fact anyone?

Why dont you go put yourself in a war zone with some friendlier troops faced with suicide bombers and snipers then and see what happens. As we have witnessed even recently with the US, after facing a couple of suicide attacks, they are shooting anyone who merely drives past their check point and that includes quite peaceful women and children.

[Henrik]

Dear Who (and I really wish at some point you would become a proper member, unless you were one and have lost your password...),

You may call them mistakes, and indeed they can qualify as mistakes. However, if a person criticizes the actions of the Israeli armed forces, it does not automatically imply that they condone the actions of terrorists. There is no need to put the spotlight on the terrible actions of suicide bombers in order to lessen the consequences of a legitimate army killing civilians.

Besides, when one wants to kill an individual, shooting a missile in to an apartment block will usually have the effect of causing certain collateral damage.....It doesn't take a genious to figure that out.

[who]

I didnt say he did condone any attacks, though I was asking what he thought of them. Some do condone such attacks as legitimate so I was wondering what his opinion of them was.

Collateral damage is extremely unfortunate but at least is still more targetted than random bus bombings as the article above does attempt to point out.

what difference does making a member do? I have member written against my name instead of guest?

[Henrik]

Guest-who said:

I didnt say he did condone any attacks, though I was asking what he thought of them. Some do condone such attacks as legitimate so I was wondering what his opinion of them was.

Collateral damage is extremely unfortunate but at least is still more targetted than random bus bombings as the article above does attempt to point out.

what difference does making a member do? I have member written against my name instead of guest?

About being a member, if you feel that the only difference it makes is having "member" written against your name then I will not bring it up again.

[Topcontender]

Since this is dealing with israel. I want to know why 15billion of the US's 80billion dollar war bill is going to Isreal. Christ they already get 5billion a year from us.

[Danny Boy]

TC;
The 15 billion was asked for 3 months ago, it is to buy more arms to kill innocents women and children and to destroy their home, oh yes, and to "compensate" for the loss of "tourist revenue".
As for why you have to pay it, well the oft-used term to win the Jewish vote must be the reason. After all they do make up 3% of the American population and their vote must be invaluable.

[JWK]

Danny said:

TC;
The 15 billion was asked for 3 months ago, it is to buy more arms to kill innocents women and children and to destroy their home, oh yes, and to "compensate" for the loss of "tourist revenue".
As for why you have to pay it, well the oft-used term to win the Jewish vote must be the reason. After all they do make up 3% of the American population and their vote must be invaluable.

I don't know that it is to win the Jewish vote to be honest. Correct me if im wrong, but there is a larger muslim population in America then Jewish(and i hope im not just plucking this fact from the air for fear of looking the complete dolt) 3% would be around 6 million no? I think the Arab population is more around the 8 million mark.

(the above are from memory, and by no means should be taken as concrete figures)

Also, i cannot fathom why the Americans are so receptive to the Jewish plight. If my thoughts are indeed correct about the population, then it does not seem to make sense. There is no natural material or mineral wealth in Israel, no Natural resources easily capitalised upon. There is perhaps a pang of guilt at not opening its borders when the Jews were fleeing persecution at the hands of the Nazi's when it easily could have. There is also perhaps the wish to have a reasonably strong say in the only stable democracy in the region,(Turkey excluded for inaccessibility to US influence, as seen recently) but to be honest i cant quite grasp a solid convincing reason for such stalwart support...

And as an extra note i don't think it is purely because of any Zionist conspiracy either

[Danny Boy]

JWK; I was being sarcastic. Whilst the jewish percentage of population is the smallest of all ethnic communities in America they are the only group, ethnic or otherwise, to be represented by a "Special Liaison to the Jewish Community" in the Government administration

. They get by far the most preferential treatment. Even their corrupt government employees are freed from prison as long as Hilary C got their vote. Never mind that the $10 million they stole, for use in their own community, was to have been used for a “black area refurbishment” and never paid back. Please note: almost all Jews vote as their Rabbi tells them.

[JWK]

ok- granted. But i still would like to know why america is so partial!?

Anybody know?

[Henrik]

I would say it is due to the considerable influence the Jewish community has in the "ruling" bodies of the US. That implies the economy and decisive parts of the government.

It may not be a particularly large community, but it is very influential.

[Topcontender]

old alliances, we have been backing Israel for so long we can't stop giving them cash. what always pissed me of fis that we give so much to isreal and almost nothing to the palastinians. then we wonder why they are so poor. Israel is the biggest welfare recipient out there

[daSilva]

[saracasm]Oh yes of course all of the world's evil is because of the Americans supporting the Jews, I mean no Muslim would do what his Ayatollah told him what to do. It really is too bad that Hitler didn't succeed in wiping the vermin off the face of the planet[/saracasm]

The anti-semetic fervor on this site fucking disgusts me to no end.