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Post by BrainFade on Feb 16, 2003 19:44:38 GMT -5
Another simple question from the Brain that will hopefully spark a thread of War-in-Iraq-like proportions, injecting newfound vigour and urgency to the (sadly) quiet Intellekt area. *smug grin*
Ok, your thoughts/feelings on the matter please.
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Post by Danny Boy on Feb 16, 2003 22:04:09 GMT -5
If there is, he/she is a sadistic bastard.
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Post by guesr on Feb 16, 2003 22:22:09 GMT -5
Just in answer to that, the question being why would god let so much suffering go on,...
well, why not?
If we expect him to stop the suffering of innocent beings then as an anaolgy, why do we sit and watch nature programs watching a lion tear a wildebeast to pieces while it is alive.
As the relative Gods of this earth, should we not step in and prevent the suffering of the wildebeast, prevent the lion from catching the wildebeast and perhaps feed the lions with meat from animals that died naturally or perhaps even get rid of the lions all together.
Of course I don't believe any of that but suffering it seems is part and parcel of nature and if we are happy for it to exist in animals why should we expect God to be less happy about it existing in humans.
alright i'm going
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Post by thajavaman on Feb 16, 2003 22:49:32 GMT -5
In this world, the quality of dying is the only way we can proove existence.
Then, if God doesn't die, she doesn't exist. If however God did die, well, then she's dead.
and just in case the idea of reincarnation comes up, then it may be said that God became everything. However, though everything is in continuing flow, the escence (God) remains the same, hence God cannot die, hence she cannot exist
PRAISE ME THEN! ;D
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Post by BrainFade on Feb 16, 2003 23:36:00 GMT -5
Quote from the Hitchiker's guide to the galaxy -
God: If I prove I exist, then that denies faith and without faith I am nothing
Man: Well then it's a dead giveaway then? the babel fish couldn't have possibly evolved on it's own. So that proves you do exist and therefore by your words, you don't.
God: I never thought of that.
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Post by BrainFade on Feb 16, 2003 23:48:03 GMT -5
DB - what about the argument that it's not God's fault, but ours that the world is fucked up? God gave us the ability to make our own choices, and WE as people are the ones that are sadistic. Anyone buy that?
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Post by glendo on Feb 16, 2003 23:59:42 GMT -5
if he exists, he is evil.. in the old testament, there was an active god. he constantly popped up to direct his flock. he would settle peasants and kings disputes there and then... exclusively only in the middle east of course. then, he completely disappears, without a trace or whimper, leaving man running around splintering into many different religions, leaving man to judge god's way or will, and killing millions of each other in his name. then he allows nuclear weapons to be created, the holocaust to exist, and the exploitation of his worship to avangelists to milk money and profit from his believers... yeah he exists.... yeah right.  |
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Post by Henrik on Feb 17, 2003 2:16:26 GMT -5
Hmmm, if he/she exists, then I assume he/she has weapons of mass destruction (floods, plagues etc.) and we must disarm him/her.
Let's pass a Shamu resolution to disarm god.
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Post by Danny Boy on Feb 17, 2003 2:47:04 GMT -5
LOL @ Henrik
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Post by smokingun on Feb 17, 2003 4:02:56 GMT -5
Yes there is a God. as human beings it is not possible to comprehand God in his entirty. but the world as we know it cannot simply exist by coincidence.
It is us people who have screwed things up. but don't blame all the shit that happens in the world on God.
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Post by danitoolazytologin on Feb 17, 2003 4:50:46 GMT -5
personally i don't beleive in god, but i do beleive in fate, and craziness!lol! i also beleive in karma (what goes around comes around) i also beleive in treating others like you would want to be treated. i don't diss people that beleive in god, it's up to them, beleive me i know that faith can be a very powerful thing sometimes, what i really dislike tho is those people that try to make me beleive in god. When i was 9 years old i got the shit beaten out of me at school because i said i didn't beleive in god. when they asked me how humans came to be, i asked them if they'd ever heard of evolution!lol! (i mean come on, how egotistical, women came from adam's rib! what's more beleivable, that or the monkeys?!!) i also dislike people who claim to be religious just to get into heaven (not that i beleive in such a thing) the church, in my opinion is a screwed up organisation. wasn't jesus's original idea of christianity to make religion something for the people and basically the opposite of what it's become today? i can't stand people like that, when i lived in miami, my next door neighbours were like that, they'd get up at the crack of dawn every sunday to attend church and look their noses down on me for never going (hey i've been once with my family, who are very religious and somewhere in the 4 hour service i fell asleep!!!) but the point is these people never behaved like good christians! for one thing, the son was a pervert, he always barged into my house asking me for help on his homework and trying to get laid (which was never going to happen) they would never help someone in need, and when they moved out, they left their bird behind and waited for a week to come back and get him, at that point he was dead! ok well all this has a point. these days religion seems to be (and for god sakes, even in the middle ages it was, it was worse then!) people's justification for things they do, "oh well i can go to church" i'm not saying that everyone's like that, if u beleive and practice what you preach then good for you, it's a nice thing, but it's those hipocritical peoplke that think i'm worse then them for not beleiving that i can't stand!phew!  |
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Post by Danny Boy on Feb 17, 2003 5:04:13 GMT -5
personally i don't beleive in god, but i do beleive in fate, and craziness!lol! i also beleive in karma (what goes around comes around) i also beleive in treating others like you would want to be treated. i don't diss people that beleive in god, it's up to them, I go along with that, well said My type of humour on religion, "What a way to spend Easter"  |
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Post by smokingun on Feb 17, 2003 6:04:07 GMT -5
dani,
when you say that christianity as we know it today was not how Jesus intended it to be, i have to agree with you. i also agree with all you have to say about your sanctimonious neighbours. even i can't stand people who think that they are holier and as a result better than other people.
religion is something very personal. it is what makes me a better person. it teaches me to love other people and treat them with respect and compassion. even as a young lad i have had more than my fair share of arguments against the church, to the point that a catholic priest even suggested that i am not fit to be a catholic. i told him to go to hell and that i'd be damned if i let a mere human decide whom i should worship. but i do beleive in God and the bible. and i couldn't care if the church decided to throw me out. it's my life and my faith.
i also have a deep respect for other religions, but like the case of christianity i think the people in charge of running these religions have screwed up big time. we have terrorists in the name of god, the sinalas (buddhists) and tamils (hindus) killing each other. we had the sikhs blowing up planes, crusades all in the name of religion.
it is interesting that you talk about karma, which is a very indian term. i find it odd that people in india find it fashionable to ape the western traditions and for the western people to ape the indian. perhaps the grass is greener on the other side. but the study of karma goes deeper than all of that. it deals with the quest for God which is also intepreted by some to be the truth. if at the end of one life time an individual fails to find this truth, the individual is born again untill the soul finds this truth. when this occurs the individual is said to have achieved nirvana, and becomes part of this entity that is called truth and what i beleive to be God.
maybe i am wrong. the rationalist in me says that God is a creation by man to satisfy his own insecurity. but then again there are so many things that i just cannot explain. i lost my father a year back. i still remember the last hours, he was sleeping and i was by his side. he was struggling to breathe and all i could do was pray. i prayed that he would not suffer, and his breathing did ease up. maybe it was the medicines but they didn't work before. he passed away peacefully a few hours later. and while i have always been religious on the inside, that one incident will always remain with me as a reminder that there is a God, and that he does love us. even when we doubt him, he will always be there for us.
Danny Boy,
there is no greater show of love than Jesus giving up his own life for us. thank you for sharing that picture with us. in your own way you too are an instrument of God.
smokingun
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Post by dani on Feb 17, 2003 7:51:43 GMT -5
hey smokingun, yeah when you talk about the things you can't explain, I have to admit i've had my fair share of those (that's what i mean by craziness) one time when i was 13 i was playing volleyball in a gym and something just told me to step back so i did, seconds later this huge light came crashing down from the ceiling right exactlly in the place where i had been standing seconds earlier, i would have been crushed! i've had several excperiences like that. i admit, that when i was younger i did pray a few times, not for myself, but for other people and each time it really worked. it's not like i beleive in god, it's mor elike i dunno, posative energy getting trasmitted. i dunno, i have this weird theory that we're connected to our environment and the other people in our environment, we can observe things sub contiously, like the environment around us or even other people around us, we can almost sense things. i think this must have been dilluted over time. (god i sound like a nutter!lol!) about what you said about the rational side of you, this is exactlly how i view a certain type of religion, something that people created to justify themselves, to say, wow, some all powerful being created us, there will be an afterlife means that we are important in the grander scheme of things, i'd like to beleive in more, but i have to say that when you die, i think you really must just shut off. i remember when i was younger and i used to think about this and i would say to myself "well that sucks, what will i do for the rest of eternity?!" but then i won't do anything cause i will no longer exist. it's hard to fathom. you're right, religion is a very personal thing, i think that no matter who you are you have to have something to hold onto and to beleive in, something that gives you hope. That thing's not necissairily god or religion, i mean it can be, but for other people it's i dunno love, dreams etc...ah well, hope i made some sense.
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Post by RacerX on Feb 18, 2003 0:02:20 GMT -5
Yes, I believe in God.
I also believe Jesus was the son of God.
I do not think that God is to blame for all the evil on this planet.
We tend to focus on the people representing God, and that's wrong, because people are born of sin. We're imperfect.
To often we confuse RELIGION with God. There's a big difference.
I think the real sadistic bastards on this planet are mankind.
RacerX
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Don't Die Before You Live...
Marlboro orange is just a passing trend, Italian racing red will never go out of style!