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Post by justan on Aug 19, 2003 16:25:21 GMT -5
posted about the two suicide bombings on children and UN Humanitarian workers carried out by Arabs in the Mid-East today.
Hmm I wonder why?
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Post by daSilva on Aug 19, 2003 17:05:25 GMT -5
there will never be peace in the mid-east!
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Post by who won on Aug 19, 2003 18:42:26 GMT -5
The place is a shambles.
I was never particularly pro the war but did buy into the arguments as they were presented, - that of imminent threat, terrorist organisations, and of course the one definite, the Saddam regime etc.
Of course, there is still an insistance that there were WMD, but, as the arguments go, they may have already been moved to Syria or some other rogue nation or some other terrorist groups, all the same, such self assured 'intelligence' about exact facilities and capability begins to look a little less than intelligence when months into the job and we have not one WMD found. I have to admit, I would have expected something to have been planted if nothing was found, but at least they didn't do that.
My fears against the war that made me sway against the war revolved around exactly this situation. Getting rid of Saddam cannot be seen as a bad thing, but now we are entrenched fighting a kind of war we cannot win. Fighting terrorists. The US will eventually have to pull out while the situation deteriorates and they will either stay forever, or leave Iraq in a mess.
By that time, a fully well organised militia will have established far more advanced techniques from the months practicing against US and will make a move against newly elected ministers and eventually take over Iraq.
In only some extremely small way am I slightly vindictive. It serves the Bush administration right for rushing headlong in with very weak inelligence. I hope they can regret their tough talking now. The rest of me fears for the mess that is occuring, I am saddened for the waste of life out there, the bombings that occured today (both of them of course), the mired state of the Iraqis. Ironically even with sanctions and the harshness of the regime, so long as they stayed out of trouble, in terms of basic sustinence, they were better off under Saddam, and that is the saddest aspect of it all.
The place is a mess. Whats the solution now?
Of course, its not all bad, there is some progress, and it is possible, sometimes, to crush terrorist groups. Not often, but with the right hardline action, it can be done, Jordan managed to crush the PLO from within its state, but we need not go into their actions.
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Post by Danny Boy on Aug 19, 2003 20:18:14 GMT -5
The UN: that would be the organization that allowed 10's of thousands of Iraqi children to die in the last 12 years of sanctions would it? The same organization that allowed America to launch an illegal war that not only killed innocent civilians but took out many of their utilities, like power/water/sewage plants, and never said or launched any action against them. The same organization that turned a blind eye whilst America dropped cluster bombs on Iraqi civilians, which are still killing people/children even today. The UN should be reminded, "You reap what you sow." The bomb in israel; The bombers are showing the same callous disregard for life that has been shown by America and other so called civilized nations throughout history. If the world lifted one finger to stop the daily abuse of an entire nation, there may be some hope of, if not stopping, then at least severely curtailing the excuses used by the various factions who have an all-to-ready civilian population supporting them.
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Post by who won on Aug 19, 2003 20:43:46 GMT -5
Well, I guess they deserve each other then.
I wouldnt want the UN as a neighbour!
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Post by Justin on Aug 19, 2003 21:39:51 GMT -5
The States and by default the West is in Iraq. The UN as far as I know is not the Great Satan, so what does this mean? Aside from the obvious "soft" target fact who knows, ask the suicidal fanatics. There are hundreds of possible answers The one thing that is going to happen or should happen is that the UN gets off it's collective butts and send in peacekeepers or nation builders or whatever label they chose to call themselves. The sooner they make their backroom deals and get on with it the better. This I hope is one of the final showdowns between those that want (insert word here) and those that want some kind of stability and democractic government in Iraq. One thing for certain as of this moment,the States can't and won't pull back or out, inspite of all the sabatoge to the infrastructure. As far as Israel goes,right or wrong, man I fear nothing short of it's ceasing to exist will stop some of these groups. Is this the end of the "Road Map"? Did it ever have a chance? Is da Silva right? Is Danny Boy right? And on that note good night
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Post by Henrik on Aug 20, 2003 1:31:22 GMT -5
Two small points about yesterday's bombings:
The Iraq bombing of the UN office is most likely carried out because it was an "easy" target, and that it would undoubtedly attract much attention in the west. It must have been far easier to send a bomb there than to a US military garnison, and so a prime target for terrorist groups. I doubt that there was any other particular meaning to it than that i.e. I doubt it that is was some sort of revenge to the years of sactions imposed by the UN.
The Israel bombing could have some serious escalating effect. The target this time was actually ultra orthodox Israelis, a group that includes several extremists, and is more than likely to either execute certain actions of their own in retaliation and/or will weigh heavily on the government to take some very extreme measures in return.
The goal of those behind the suicide bombing (Hammas or the Jihad?) is obviously to avoid any peaceful resolution, and this latest action will probably be considered a great success by them. What total idiots!!!!
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Post by Srrh on Aug 20, 2003 7:45:59 GMT -5
Iraqi bombing: That is what the UN get for being the US's ho. They had nothing to do there. I hope the intl. community gets the message and leave Iraqi to its victors: UK, US and Oz. The UN's presence gives the impression this american expansion is applauded by the world... Harrasing the invader: it's Resistance
Israeli bombing: In response to Israeli political assasination/killings. I could have told you last week it was going to happen. Resistance.
In the words of Brother Malcom X: Clearly a case of the chiken coming home to the rooster.
BTW: Not one word bout the Death of the African butcher Amin Dada from you either Justan..hmmm I wonder why ?sounds stupid don't it? Well your "accusation" doesn't sound much smarter
Srrh
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Post by Topcontender on Aug 20, 2003 8:24:53 GMT -5
Ahh it was great news to hear that the twisted SOB Amin died. To bad it as not from kidney failure.
The Iraqi's might have made a very big mistake, by going after the UN. The UN being targeted raises the issue that the rebels don't care who it is they will kill anyone even if they want to help.
Israel- Abbas said that Arafat is undermining him. However, this bombing was retailation from the israelis building that wall, and getting that leader.
Hmmm, no word about the French going into Columbia W/O UN, and a Columbian OK. They just rolled in there and got that freind of the minister, and we are hearing that france might have traded weapons for the person.
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Post by justan on Aug 20, 2003 11:23:58 GMT -5
BTW: Not one word bout the Death of the African butcher Amin Dada from you either Justan..hmmm I wonder why ? sounds stupid don't it? Well your "accusation" doesn't sound much smarterSrrh I'm not sure I follow the logic there. Was the child UN Humanitarian worker Idi Amin fire bombed by a group of Suicidal Fundamentalist Africans(whatever that means). Were we even posting about the pros and cons of Amin for the last few months? Had we been posting about Amin then I could see the conection The point of my headline was/is that some posters(and I see nothing wrong in that)were quick to post anti-Israel anti-US propaganda almost every time something happened, yet the largest event in the recent history of the UN and a busload of dead Jewish kids seemed to go unnoticed. Personally I see no connection between the two events. The death of the "Butcher Of Africa" and the Terrorist Attacks in Israel and Iraq. That's just me, you obviously have a different opinion. The point is that at this moment in time Iraq has no viable government and civil structure. The wrong or right of it can be debated but it won't change the facts of what's happening in Iraq or for that matter Israel at this moment. The chickens may have come home to roost, you reap out you sow and all those other nice cliches won't change what is happening right now. What would happen if the UN, States, and Allies left Iraq right now, just pulled out and left? The so-called resistance in Iraq. Who are they? The average person who just wants some personal freedom and a life, or some imported Muslim who has been dreaming about having an American bullet put into his brain in the name of Allah since he was fourteen(see Onion thread) to spread the word of Islam to the Infidels in hopes of converting them, and then some so-called bitter-enders who are living up to their nick. Personally I would like to believe that they are part of the minority which make up the latter two groups. After three decades of a brutal dictatorship based on Stalin's Russia, and the over confidence of the Bush government in terms of their peace plan, it's time to rethink how to go about it, but go about they must, and go about it they will. As far as Israel vs the Arabs I like everyone else don't have a clue
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Post by Henrik on Aug 20, 2003 12:12:47 GMT -5
Actually I didn't post about the incidents earlier simply because I only really heard about them this morning...
That said, I was surprised that nobody brought up the passing of Idi Amin earlier.
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Post by Srrh on Aug 20, 2003 12:17:49 GMT -5
Justan, It is the disguised accusation in your Not one word posted about the two suicide bombings on children and UN Humanitarian workers carried out by Arabs in the Mid-East today. Hmm I wonder why? original post that I reacted to. Just the "I wonder why?" part looks much more like a passive agressive way of saying "I know why, wink-wink, nudge-nudge, because you guys are a bunch of arab loving biased biatch" Thus my similarly ill intented "re-direct" about Amin Dada... I might very well have taken that wrong...but truth be told, I usually recognize sarcasm and irony when I see them ;D S.
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Post by Srrh on Aug 20, 2003 12:31:51 GMT -5
1)yet the largest event in the recent history of the UN and a busload of dead Jewish kids seemed to go unnoticed. 2) The point is that at this moment in time Iraq has no viable government and civil structure. 3) What would happen if the UN, States, and Allies left Iraq right now, just pulled out and left? 4)The so-called resistance in Iraq. Who are they? The average person who just wants some personal freedom and a life, or some imported Muslim who has been dreaming about having an American bullet put into his brain in the name of Allah since he was fourteen(see Onion thread) to spread the word of Islam to the Infidels in hopes of converting them, and then some so-called bitter-enders who are living up to their nick. 1)It is probably no more significant then to have been rendered obsolete last year by US unilateral action. A bus load of Kids? that news to me...I read ONE kid. Eitehr way both sides kill kids. Israeli kids, palestinian kids...A child ain't worth more to me because he's jewish...a kid's a kid. I'll agree that suicide bombers probably killed more kids the Tashal...but hey, the Israelis have smart bombs...the palestianians have dumb-ass bombers... 2)Who's fault....? They had one a few month ago...and they were at least as viable as MrKim's clique... 3)The same thing that usually happens when an invader pull-out? As thousands of invaders have, throughout the ages? 4)Probably a bit of both...so what...many of the French resistance during WWII was structured by...the brits!! Still worked... Srrh
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Post by Henrik on Aug 20, 2003 12:34:44 GMT -5
It may not be very PC, nor very sensitive of me, but srrh, your
had me ROFL!!!
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Post by justan on Aug 20, 2003 12:34:56 GMT -5
srrh It was meant to be ironic but not in the sarcastic sense of the word, lol if you know what I mean.
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