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Post by pabs on May 21, 2003 0:38:14 GMT -5
Brainfade,
I'm Colombian living in the US. On my mother's side, my grandmother is black and my grandfather is white (blonde, blue eyes). On my father's side, I can't really say what's in my blood. I guess that side is "hispanic" in the sense that our race is basically the result of the mix of spaniards and natives mostly.
Funnily enough though, as I start considering post-graduation career choices, one of my professors has already told me that worse come worse, I should use race as a lever to get me a job in academia. Turns out, a lot of universities are hurting for Hispanic faculty, especially in engineering. He says that everything else being equal, I might get hired over a white American by the mere fact that I'm hispanic.
To tell you the truth, I hope it doesn't come down to that as I am working hard on building a respectable research record that might get me a good job. And even then, I don't think I want to know that the only reason I got a job was because of my race.
You see, I understand the politics behind affirmative action and I agree that some minorities are still struggling with discrimination or its aftermath. But at the personal level, I feel that some people use affirmative action as an excuse to achieve what otherwise they couldn't achieve by their own personal accomplishments. And I am very big on personal accomplishments.
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Post by El Sid on May 21, 2003 3:04:33 GMT -5
You see, I understand the politics behind affirmative action and I agree that some minorities are still struggling with discrimination or its aftermath. But at the personal level, I feel that some people use affirmative action as an excuse to achieve what otherwise they couldn't achieve by their own personal accomplishments. And I am very big on personal accomplishments.pabs, I'll drink to that , esp. "And I am very big on personal accomplishments."It is a pity that this "colour coding" of the human race almost always comes to the fore in our day to day lives and discussions. Yes, we are different in many odd ways due to different cultural backgrounds but those differences are the ingredients for a recipe to a gourmet meal we together can enjoy and continually improve on. Each ingredient with it's own very special characteristic. I think it was Martin Luther King who made the famous "I have a dream ..." speech and I think it was Nelson Mandela who coined the "Rainbow Nation" idea for the post-apartheid SA. Violet, indigo, blue, green, yellow, orange and red together is colourless. My dream is for more and more people to realise this and stop f*cking with the spectrum so that each of us can join in with our own special rĂ´le in the world-wide production of Paul McCartney's "We All Stand Together". And in so doing, affirmative action becomes a "personal accomplishment" rather than a political one. Alas, I know dreams don't always come true but I'll dream on.
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Post by Henrik on May 21, 2003 4:32:19 GMT -5
ElSid, I'm with you in that dream! How about we all have a beer together to toast that!
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Post by smokingun on May 21, 2003 4:49:30 GMT -5
ElSid, How about we all have a beer together to toast that! errr, i don't drink alchohol, but if i did, i'd drink to that. smokingun
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Post by Wycco on May 21, 2003 7:27:11 GMT -5
El Sid! 2 Beers from me!
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Post by Srrh on May 21, 2003 8:36:24 GMT -5
IMO affirmative action is NOT racist I agree. It's called reparation, and it is largely insufficient. But to admit that it is used to right a wrong is to admit a wrong was done... Of course I go to Pulaski Ten. a few times every year, so I am sure that my vision of race in the US is REALLY twisted...hell, quiet a few of those fuckers are proud of their "pointy hat" heritage...assholes S....
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Post by Wycco on May 21, 2003 9:35:18 GMT -5
, but IMO affirmative action is NOT racist. The fact is that for generations blacks around the world have been EXPLOITED. Now, in order to level the playing field it's necessary to have affirmative action (in SA we call it "favouring the previously disadvantaged"). Yes Blacks HAVE been exploited and they HAVE been treated horribly. But not by me! Not by most white people alive today! To punnish me, and other white people, for something our ancestors may have (or may not have) done seems ludicrous. Should all Americans be punnished for their ancestors taking land from the Natives? Should all Jewish people be punnished for their recent ancestors moving to Israel and taking the land of the Palestinians... Two wrongs have never made a right (although 3 lefts might!) Sure- there are impoverished black people. And it is hard to make money when you have none: but lets not forget- there were white slaves. There are minorities in the US who NEVER had enslaved ancestors. There are people who have ancestors who both HAD slaves and DID NOT have slaves. If the goal is to give a headstart to the poor- affirmative action should favour people from poor families getting jobs REGARDLESS of colour. There will NEVER be racial harmony as long as their are different laws for people of different skin colours. There will NEVER be racial harmony as long as their are different accolades, or clubs, or societies, or competitions, or gatherings for people exclusive to a race or select races. Things like the "All White" and "All Black" prom in the news recently is horrendous. Why the hell does race have to even BE an issue? There is less genetic difference between a black man and a white man than there is between two puppies in ONE litter from a dog. Humanity is one of the least diverse species on the planet from a genetic standpoint. We're all practically the same- so lets stop awarding one race and penalizing another.
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Post by Topcontender on May 21, 2003 10:31:28 GMT -5
AA sucks. Why should a better qualified person not get the job or get into school. If they want to make it even they should take the names and the ethnic crap out of the people hands so nobody can see who they are letting in the schools. I know this wont work in jobs, but in education it would work.
Black america is told it is not thier fault and someone else did this to them. They are never told anything like work, and get ahead. So they grow up thinking someone opressed them and they will never get a job.
Like i will say again the Jesse jackass's of this world do them no favors. when people try to help he calls it racism. No AA, standard testing in schools (considered ethnically byast), and proper law enforcement is considered racist. I watch some of these guys and they actaully want an education system that mirrors africa becuase it is how thier ancestors were taught in the past. My god that was 400 years ago. They are no longer AFrican they are american! Ahhhhhhhhh
rant over bad day
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Post by El Sid on May 21, 2003 10:34:07 GMT -5
on Today at 02:21am, BrainFade wrote:, and Should all Americans be punnished for their ancestors taking land from the Natives? Should all Jewish people be punnished for their recent ancestors moving to Israel and taking the land of the Palestinians... Should all Germans be punished ............... But I digress. On the affirmative action bit; this is a copy of a letter that I include as part of my bids or tenders for construction work here in the sunny SA. I have omitted the company names for obvious reasons. (BrainFade stays just around the corner BF have a on me in the meantime) This works for us but, believe me, it does not mean you are automatically safeguarded against the hijackings and cross-fire in some of the areas we do our work. Democracy, SA style, is still very much in it's baby-shoes stage yet. And whilst it is going through all the different growing pains there's a lot of work to do. So my plea to my fellow countrymen would be to buckle up and let us "Just Do It". We can and we will.
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Post by pabs on May 21, 2003 13:05:59 GMT -5
See, to my affirmative action encourages mediocrity. I am a minority and I don't think I need affirmative action. To me, these days AA equates with pity. Perhaps in the 1960s and 1970s when blacks and other minorities were just coming out of segregation it was a good idea to give them opportunities. But in today's world, I firmly believe that if you work hard enough you can do anything you want.
I don't come from a rich family, but one of the most important values that my family instilled in me was hard work. I grew up watching everyone in my family bust their asses off to make it in the world, and that's all I've been trying to do. Sure, I have had a few lucky breaks but those came as a result of my recognizing opportunity knocking at my door.
AA these days sends the message that you can get away with doing less to get results.
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Post by daSilva on May 21, 2003 14:07:58 GMT -5
AA should be that every child gets access to a good education and health care, after that everything is up to the individual to succeed.
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Post by Srrh on May 21, 2003 14:43:41 GMT -5
Why should a better qualified person not get the job or get into school That's exactly my thoughts on segregation. Yet it was the case until the sixties... Loads of communities were hence short-changed until 35-40 years ago. That is NOT ancient history. Payback time. Seems pretty fair to me. Either that or you pay those people for the 1000s of hours their slave ancestors worked to make the white man richer. Even at minimum wage, me think you are better off with AA...unless of course you want to sell half of the south to cover those unpaid debts!!! And I won't even go into lynching, systematic terror and the general love of the average red-neck for white bed sheets!! Go Spike Lee Go !!! S....
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Post by Srrh on May 21, 2003 14:47:37 GMT -5
Things like the "All White" and "All Black" prom in the news recently is horrendous. Where the hell did you get that ? Is that even legal ? I can't beleive it.... tsssssstsssss S...
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Post by Wycco on May 21, 2003 15:08:08 GMT -5
Srrh, It's been all over the news in the US...
Apparantly YES it is legal (although highly immoral)... There have been "Black Only" proms at schools round the country for years...
Incidentally- the school that hit the headlines this year is in a small town in South Georgia: Until last year the school had a seperate black and white prom dating back to segregation...
Last year they finally had their first integrated prom... this year a group of damn racists decided the Whites needed their own prom again!
And I agree- that gets a big Hiss from me too!
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Post by RacerX on May 30, 2003 21:52:25 GMT -5
H'mm...Srrh & company have pretty much covered alot of it. I'm not sure what else to add other than harp a bit more on the labels the media still INSIST on using. Why does the media insist on reporting the race of a perpitrator, right before their gender? It's always something like: a "white" male molested... or a "black" female was arrested for... or the Hispanic student (Pabs...LOL) was chased for three blocks before the police...realised he was eating Texas BBQ, and Not the mistaken SC junk that's a criminal offense. (LOL) Seriously though, the labels do need to go. It's nothing more than ammunition for those that still have hate in their hearts. I've heard it too many times before. On the other hand, I can understand if they're giving a description of a serial rapist, or some habitual criminal that police are LOOKING for. This info could help save lives, but once the police "have their man/woman" then the labels should stop. As for labels, I love telling my friends that my wife's African American...LOL, then seeing the looks on their faces when they meet her for the first time. She's whiter than a sheet...LOL! Too funny, but just goes to show how these labels can be straight up stupid. For those who don't know, she's from Durban, S.A. and is now a naturalised citizen of the United States...LOL. As for AA being reperations, or the $50k per stuff...that's pretty funny too. I believe the United States set up two seperate countries JUST for that reason: reparations to the actual slaves themselves. On the other hand, if reparations is right, then I'm thinking the Chineese should get some too, hell they built half the railway system in this country, under slave-like conditions, no? Oh well...BTW, that article on Pabs getting chased 3 blocks before the police caught him & found that he actually was eating Texas BBQ instead of SC BBQ was made up for an example. Heck ALL the cops in Austin know Pabs wouldn't touch SC BBQ with a 10 foot pole...LOL! (Take that Wyc!) On another subject, police did arrest a white male from South Carolina, for trying to export Texas BBQ out of the State. It seems he was shipping it back home for his family, so they could get some REAL BBQ!! Later, Rx
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