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Post by JWK on May 3, 2002 8:30:04 GMT -5
It seems that nothing these days is more offensive than badmouthing religion- WHY!?!?!?
As i said in an earlier thread- why should someone be ridiculed for believing in the tooth fairy or santa claws and revered for believing in god????
A touchy subject you say? there is no reason, if you are confident in your beliefs then you should be able to debate them. I may not be gaining any friends by bringing this up, but i think its about time some of this got sorted.
So... any thoughts?
p.s, if it means so much to you just ask me to delete the thread and i will, or the all powerfull moderator will.
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Post by Wycco on May 3, 2002 9:40:15 GMT -5
LOL- No I don't think this should be deleted.
Differences of opinion are OK- besides we've never been exactly PC on Shamu Croaks... LOL- as long as we're nice about being politically incorrect!
Religion- IS a touchy subject- because the consequences of a supreme being existing or not is so much more important than that of a single human being.
So it is understandable why some people are so fanatically driven by religion.
I consider myself Agnostic- because all in all- I think it would be very egotistical of me to say- Yes or No there definately is/isn't a god. Although personally- I don't THINK there is a God... at least not any God that I've ever read about.
Religion is a source of much evil- but also of much Good: depends on who is interpreting- and why.
My personal philosophy on life is: lead a moral life. In my opinion- any "loving" God wouldn't send you to eternal damnation simply because you don't believe it him. But more importantly than that (to me) is that if you lead a moral life- your relationship with others profits- and you will find yourself happier.
Thus religion aside- you won't get many friends- and you won't be too happy for long if you're an asshole.
Bad ways always come back to bite you in the butt.
My only problems with religion are:
a) When it negatively effects someone else. Since noone can TRULY say they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religion is correct- religion should be a personal thing- and should not be pushed or forced onto anybody else.
b) When it blinds people from seeing scientific or cultural advacement.
And that... is my wrap on religion!
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Post by Srrh on May 3, 2002 10:33:11 GMT -5
I should probably be in "The meaning of life" though.
Srrh
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Post by Wycco on May 3, 2002 10:34:33 GMT -5
Agreed! It has been moved... LOL... And for your moment of Zen- here is Jesus saving more than souls- he's saving your nose too!!!! - errrrm... isn't naming a deodorant "Jesus Saves" a little blasphamous?
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Post by OT on May 6, 2002 7:51:20 GMT -5
I really don't want to buy into this - so i'll just state my basic belief: - if you wouldn't want it done to you - dont do it unto others. But by the same token if you would have someone do unto you - it doesnt necessarily hold that someone else would like having that done unto them.
Tolerance and understanding is what is required. We need to respect all others.
My religion - is my heart. My church - is my body. The glue to all of this is the ocean and earth. i have been to many physical churches lately but worshiped in none.
My religion however, has me worshiping every day from within. We have this magnificent place called "Earth", and it is sacrilege to see it being consumed by those so blinded and angry and unable or unwilling to understand others plights.
It would be wonderful if certain entities could make the ultimate sacrifice - to forgive and forget.
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Post by Wycco on May 6, 2002 8:24:48 GMT -5
Tolerance and understanding is what is required. We need to respect all others.
Sorry to be Nit-Picky, OT... but "ALL" Others- or the Sane majority of others? Are Satanists to be respected? What about if the ancient religion of the Aztecs and Mayans were still alive- they had a thing called "The flowery death"- pretty much what it was- they'ld take you on top of a pyramid- rip your heart out of your living body with it still beating- and crush it against a stone idol of their gods. If they were still around- should we respect them too? OK- noone still believes in that- but there are some other sickos around. Some Hindu- fringe religions in India (NOT mainstream)- will capture a man- cut off his Penis- and thrust hot metal rods into the hole to create a fake vagina- that man is thereto the religious wacko's slave whore. (not making this up- although this is pretty extreme and rare). So should wacko's such as the above mentioned be tolerated? My view- let people believe whatever they want to- no matter how sick and perverted... but the moment they break the law throw the book at them. LOL- one final question- Catholics in a "Dry" county (no alcohol allowed)- what should be done if they are caught having communion? (with red wine)
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Post by Wycco on May 6, 2002 8:42:46 GMT -5
You know... I reread what I just wrote- and came to the conclusion...
That I could be interpretend as an overreacting maniac...
So let me just post a more "common" example.
Some Islamic nations, such as Nigeria, are reinstating fundamentalist islamic laws.
Under these laws- a woman who is raped can be stoned to death for having extra-marital sex. (the man is also punnished but not as severly.
Its not just Nigeria- but Saudia Arabia- the former Afghanistan- and other Islamic countries have varying strictnesses of these laws.
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Post by Srrh on May 6, 2002 14:28:43 GMT -5
My religion is SHAMUISM and I am rather disapointed by everything I read in this thread...you non-believers will all be "cyber-burned" by the Shamu inquisition. amen. :bounce:
Srrh
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Post by OT on May 6, 2002 20:42:10 GMT -5
As I said, I don't want to buy into an argument on this topic - so this will be my last comment on this matter.
Wycco - you have taken my qoute:
"Tolerance and understanding is what is required. We need to respect all others."
...as I have said it - but out of context...
...however, that is what I believe.
What it needs is for the other side of the coin to reciprocate - but we need to start somewhere.
In answer to some of your other statements - I am also a firm believer in the old addage - that there is a reason for everything. That reason is not always clear to you and me. And we may need to do some soul searching and take some hard knocks to try and understand that reason. But there is always a reason... even though you and I may not agree with it.
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Post by Wycco on May 7, 2002 7:12:32 GMT -5
As I said, I don't want to buy into an argument on this topic - so this will be my last comment on this matter.
Wycco - you have taken my qoute:
"Tolerance and understanding is what is required. We need to respect all others."
...as I have said it - but out of context...Thats fine- understand that perfectly. Re: taking it out of context- I understand you wern't saying: let the sicko's be sicko's... but it made me think of the "extreme fringe groups"... Curious what people's opinions on those fringe groups rights were.
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Post by Srrh on May 7, 2002 13:10:24 GMT -5
I think Religions were a historical requirement.
See, one's liberty ends were his neighboors liberty starts: religion just codified that. The idea was to bring security (thou shall not kill etc...) throughout moral pressure. Ie "if you steal, you wont go to heaven", thus people, even with no authority around, would not steal, because god would see them. So the rich stayed rich...lol The second aspect of religion is to explain the un-known: were do we come from, what's next , what's beyond the stars...
Finally, to answer Wycco's question: Satanists are not a fringe group. There are over 500.000 "registered" satanists in the US alone. I have a copy of their "bible" written by Anton Lavey (you know, from "Hotel California"). Intersting reading, but then again I'll pretty much find everything and anything "interesting".lol
Srrh
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Post by da_silva on May 7, 2002 13:53:25 GMT -5
Easy,
We all know the concept of right and wrong, and you know when you lie and when you tell the truth. In your heart you know what is right, the trick is to follow your heart and it will lead you to the truth, whatever your truth is. And as OT said, repect others even if you don't agree with their opinion.
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Post by Srrh on Feb 21, 2003 13:35:49 GMT -5
might as well bring this baby up....
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Post by smokingun on Feb 24, 2003 4:02:10 GMT -5
Those that have read some of my posts on a similar subject will know that i am catholic and to an extent religious, though i thing religion is something very personal. it is not as though that at times i find myself torn between my religion and my personal beleifs. the catholic church is very stron in its pro-life anti abortion policies. as a catholic i too beleive in the right to life. but the world is so sick that even i sometimes find myself in conflict. www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,897879,00.html here a 9 year old girl is pregnent after being raped. the church is opposing an abortion. since i beleive that the foetus is a living being as well, i too would personally oppose killing another life. but i feel torn. i cannot help but think about the 9-year old girl. what is to become of her? if carrying the baby full term is dangerous and i suspect that it is, the decision seems pretty obvious and a less painful one to terminate the pregnancy. there are times like these that i hate people. the world belongs to the animals. we were a mistake of evolution.
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Post by Henrik on Feb 24, 2003 9:40:22 GMT -5
I have stated before that I respect other people’s beliefs even though I myself am an atheist. If people believe in a god, or a religion, that is fine as long it does not hurt anybody else. That is where I draw the line. The case you bring up here SG clearly crosses that line. It is at times like these that I hate all that religion stands for, and particularly curse those that preaches these beliefs and messages to the people, first in line being the pope. Has the poor girl not suffered enough already? Don’t you think also a child being born to a 9 year old mother will have a really bad start in life, probably making his/her life miserable? Who is going to take care of that baby? The church? That one can even, for one second, question the rationale behind giving the poor girl an abortion is beyond me, and frankly sickens me. That the church can dare impose their damn beliefs on this poor child’s safety makes them criminals, and in my opinion no better than the pigs that committed the rape on the girl. What right does the church have to intervene in this case? It is when I read things like this that I am again reminded why I am so against all churches and their preachings. And don’t give me some story that it was not the church, or some god, who raped the girl. Obviously the person who did this to the girl does not deserve to breath another moment, but then for the church to step in and make a bad situation worse…. Excuse me, I need to go and
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