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Post by rick1776 on Jul 11, 2003 1:44:37 GMT -5
There will be a guest speaker giving a lecture at out university on Saturday. He is the former Senior Radiation Health Physicist for the US Army.
The US military in 1991 used 350 tons of depleted uranium shells in Iraq. In the last effort they used 750 tons. In Afghanistan they used 1000 tons. Now the half life of this stuff is about 4 billion yeards. A small shrapnel of the stuff will give you 3 times your yearly maximum dose in one hour.
Douglas Rocky, thats the guys name, recently resigned when his conscience finally got the better of him. In 1991 he was assigned to clean up the radiation mess left behind. He was told to doctor the report so that it said there was no radiation danger to both the American troops and the Iraqi people. He was told to doctor the current report AGAIN. He was unable to do so and resigned.
He has turned whistle blower. His life since doing so has been unpleasant to say the least.
The only country responsible for deploying weapons of mass destruction would appear to be the USA.
In Douglas Rocky's words, the military has turned Iraq into a radiation wasteland.
Will post more after I hear the guys lecture.
cheers
rick1776
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Post by Srrh on Jul 11, 2003 7:41:17 GMT -5
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Post by daSilva on Jul 11, 2003 7:45:16 GMT -5
LOL,
That took two clicks to get! ;D
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Post by Srrh on Jul 11, 2003 7:52:09 GMT -5
From today's BBC US President George W Bush's national security adviser says the CIA approved a speech Mr Bush made in January that included the allegation that Iraq had been trying to buy uranium from Niger. "The CIA cleared the speech in its entirety," Condoleezza Rice told reporters on Air Force One, en route from South Africa to Uganda. US President George W Bush's national security adviser says the CIA approved a speech Mr Bush made in January that included the allegation that Iraq had been trying to buy uranium from Niger. US media reported on Thursday that the White House had ignored a CIA request to remove the accusation from Mr Bush's State of the Union address on 28 January. Ahhhh  ...I am going to enjoy so much the impeachment procedures against "Coke-head"...  BTW: At least Hitler was good for his economy..."Son of a pres." can't even claim that...Well actually he can: he's been excellent for his millionaire friends  Srrh |
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Post by daSilva on Jul 11, 2003 8:05:35 GMT -5
Don't forget GB Sr's role in the CIA prior to his career in politics. I'm sure he still has some heavy connections there.
However, I would like to see a source for Mr. Rocky and his statements, I did a quick search on the net and found nothing.
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Post by Topcontender on Jul 11, 2003 12:18:32 GMT -5
1. Condi Rice is director of the NSA, not the CIA. The man that is head of the CIA is Tennet, and he was put there by Bill Clinton. So it looks like if you want to bitch, bitch at the man that told bush it was correct.
Plus Condi Rice is probably one of the smartest people in america. She graduated from college at 19, masters, 20, and completed her doctorate at 22.
2. This depleted uranium argument is funny. the stuff has like zero radioactivity, and the only time it does do any health damage is when it hits a tank and digs in melting and creating a gas that is kind of toxic for a few seconds.
3. Bush bad for the economy. Check again, Bush took office when the economy was already in an economic slump. So ol dubya (and clinton) never created the economic down turn. It was a product of ever knowing bubble that was gonna break.
4. Bush=Hitler- man you guys really need help. one guy killed millions in an attempt to create a master race. the other took on a dictator, and freed the people so they can live a good life. So what if they have oil, at least they have a commodity to rebuild thier nation.
Answer me this, if this was over oil why didn't we stay there in the first gulf war? If you dont respond to anything on this post answer this!
I never understood Europe's line of thinking. Everyone hated that twisted SOB of Saddam and wanted him gone. The Iraqi people were treated like crap, he has shot at every neighbor he has, and he continues to makes problems. Everyone wanted him out, so who cares who did it, and why they did it. as long as the next guy is good for the people it shouldn't matter. Americans want people to be free and able to make thier own choices, and that is what we are giving those people.
we believe in "peace through strength", and we take action when we see it needed. We wont sit around and wait for some stupid group to talk it over and try a peaceful means to ending a problem that will only lead to nothing. Sometimes people need a gun shoved down their throat, and that is what we gave ol Saddam.
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Post by Srrh on Jul 11, 2003 13:13:18 GMT -5
1. Condi Rice is director of the NSA, not the CIA. The man that is head of the CIA is Tennet, and he was put there by Bill Clinton. So it looks like if you want to bitch, bitch at the man that told bush it was correct. Plus Condi Rice is probably one of the smartest people in america. She graduated from college at 19, masters, 20, and completed her doctorate at 22. 2. This depleted uranium argument is funny. the stuff has like zero radioactivity, and the only time it does do any health damage is when it hits a tank and digs in melting and creating a gas that is kind of toxic for a few seconds. 3. Bush bad for the economy. Check again, Bush took office when the economy was already in an economic slump. So ol dubya (and clinton) never created the economic down turn. It was a product of ever knowing bubble that was gonna break. 4. Bush=Hitler- man you guys really need help. one guy killed millions in an attempt to create a master race. the other took on a dictator, and freed the people so they can live a good life. So what if they have oil, at least they have a commodity to rebuild thier nation. Answer me this, if this was over oil why didn't we stay there in the first gulf war? If you dont respond to anything on this post answer this! I never understood Europe's line of thinking. Everyone hated that twisted SOB of Saddam and wanted him gone. The Iraqi people were treated like crap, he has shot at every neighbor he has, and he continues to makes problems. Everyone wanted him out, so who cares who did it, and why they did it. as long as the next guy is good for the people it shouldn't matter. Americans want people to be free and able to make thier own choices, and that is what we are giving those people. we believe in "peace through strength", and we take action when we see it needed. We wont sit around and wait for some stupid group to talk it over and try a peaceful means to ending a problem that will only lead to nothing. Sometimes people need a gun shoved down their throat, and that is what we gave ol Saddam. Well, 1)Both ABC and BBC talk about Condy "Name that tanker after me" Rize. If you think you know better, write them. I was mearly doing some C'nP. What does it have to do with intelligence? You think all evil bastards are idiots? 2)I don't think it sounds funny to the thousands of Gulf war veteran who suffer from GW syndrome. 3)No. Baby Bush ís excellent for the economy of his croonies. Meanwhile, unemployment is at a ten year high and the fed. actually PAYS you to borrow (interest rates are so low that when you count inflation...they actaully give you dough...). He's been also a true liberal when it comes to subsidize farming, the us steel industry etc...hahaha...Even Hill Billy Clinton would not have dared to be so "leftist".... 4)The Hitler comparasson is obviously there for effect: it's laughable...just like stating that the crook "took on a dictator, and freed the people so they can live a good life".... A to your Q: Under what pretense ? It was a UN sanctioned enteprise. This time he had pseudo-WMD, which allowed him to act illegaly As for the statement "Sometimes people need a gun shoved down their throat, and that is what we gave ol Saddam."That's pretty much what Ossama gave you... Next time it happens, and IT will happen...remind me not to give a shit, cause people "need a gun shoved down their throat"..or "a plane shoved up their asses", whichever comes first!! Srrh |
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Post by daSilva on Jul 11, 2003 13:20:25 GMT -5
There is a difference when fighting an Army that has been warned and a surprise attack on civilians. I'm sure even you can see that Srrh.  |
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Post by alexmd on Jul 11, 2003 14:07:39 GMT -5
i was gonna answer this but Srrh made good points, i won't be alble to fraze it better myself.
however i will pick on number 2 - the depleted uranium business is not funny because that shit is radioactive. anything that comes out of a nuclear reactor is radioactive even if by contamination only, which is not even the case here. depleted uranium is very dangerous and there should be a treaty or something banning it's use just like nuclear weapons. I can't stress enough how much i dissaprove of it's use.
But than again the Abrams probably would not score so hight against the T90 whitout it.
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Post by Topcontender on Jul 11, 2003 14:15:19 GMT -5
Srrh- so under you thinking anything that is not backed by the UN, it not a good thing? If that is true, wasn't yugoslavia not backed by the UN?
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Post by rick1776 on Jul 12, 2003 20:29:59 GMT -5
Sorry TC, but you can not justly defend an action which is unjust.
"2. This depleted uranium argument is funny. the stuff has like zero radioactivity, and the only time it does do any health damage is when it hits a tank and digs in melting and creating a gas that is kind of toxic for a few seconds."
I sincerely ask you do do your homework a little better before making a statement like this again. At this stage I will give you the benefit of doubt, and accept that the statement is made out of ignorance.
Firstly just to clear your misconception up about Uraniam238. It has a half life of about 4.5 billion years. So it aint going away. It emits alpha radiation which is low in energy in comparison to say beta or gamma radiation. The trouble is that once the shell detonates it spreads kilograms of the stuff into the surrounding area as fine particles and dust. (micron and submicron level). You ingest, and breath the particles. Your body tries to do the right thing and forms scar tissue around the particles. You now have imbeded into you an alpha emitting radiation source for the rest of your short life.
A small piece of the stuff, about the size of a dime if held in your hand will give you about the maximum permissible dose for three years in about an hour!!! Now the shrapnel pieces look really "cool" and kids being kids are picking the stuff up as Souvenirs. Bagdad is literally covered with the stuff.
In Douglas Rokke's words, Iraq is such a radiological mess you should dig a big hole pick it up and bury it. Trouble is you cant do that with a country.
US navy ships have radiation detectors on board them. They were located 200km off the coast. During the bombing phase the radiation detectors were going off the dials. This is freeking 200 Km off the coast.
OK now back to the main story. The guys name is Douglas Rokke he is a Physics Prof at the University of Illonois (sorry abot the spelling). TC, if you do not believe he exists, buy the autobiography of Stormin Norman and turn to page 390 of the book. It mentions Douglas. The guy also held up a copy of a letter singed by Norman, that ordered him to clean up the radiation mess from the first gulf war.
After the first gulf was he formed part of the clean up team that had to go in, assess the radiation damage, take measurements and put into place a procedure to minimise the residual risk to the US troops and the people of Iraqi. His conclusion was that you could make the situation minimally better by scraping up a few inches of hit zone areas of 100 metres in radius, digging a great big hole and dumping the contaminated dirt and the dead tank/plane/personnel into it. You then covered the hole with dirt and prayed. There are one million of these sites in Iraq.
His report concluded that there was no effective way to neutralise the effects of depleted uranium shells (DU shells) and recommended that they no longer be used. He was ordered to doctor this report and say that the use of DU shells presented no long term health issues. He was asked to conclude the same thing in his report of Gulf war 2, which he could not do. One of his radiation team personnel died after 9 months, 3 others had died after 2 years, Douglas himself pisses urine that registers 5 times the allowable radiation level for a contaninated site (that is 200Bq/s). So his urine registers 1000Bq/s every time he pisses.
Officially all radiation affected personnel are entitled to all available treatment. Unofficially he and his team were told not to remove DU shrapnel from US personnel so that long term health issues could be monitored and recorded. Nice stuff, the US is treating its own soldiers as radiation experiments.
The US military 100% knew that Sudaam had weapons of mass destruction in 1990. How did they know. The US had sold him the technology to make them. Yep, biological, chemical and nuclear bombs. The US sold the technology and helped him make the stuff. After the gulf war1 and by 1994 all these weapons had been destroyed. For gulf war 2, the US knew that Iraq no longer possesed the weapons and the infrastructure to make them as the US had basically blown everything up.
The reason for the invasion of Iraq used by Bush was an outright lie.
In Douglas Rokke's opinion Bush, Blair and Howard (Australian Prime Minister) should be tried as war criminals.
I just kept shaking my head in disbelief at the things this guy was saying. He is not some nut case greenie, he is a Prof of Physics, was assigned the the post of Radiation Health Physicist for the US military, showed the audience letters signed by various military personnel ordering him to clean up the mess. The guy is the real deal. Whether you choose to believe the truth or bury your head in the sand is up to you.
Oh by the way, guess who won the contract to clean up the radiation contamination in both gulf wars?? A comapany owned by Dick Cheney. Rather convenient.
cheers
rick1776
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Post by daSilva on Jul 13, 2003 16:42:01 GMT -5
Thank you for finally spelling the guy's last name right, now I can find something on him. |
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Post by rick1776 on Jul 14, 2003 8:18:53 GMT -5
da Silva, Shouldnt be too hard to find info on him. I just typed Douglas Rokke and came up with loads of hits. www.chugoku-np.co.jp/abom/uran/special/index3.htmltraprockpeace.org/RokkeVitae.htmlwww.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/23/1056220529825.htmlI had about 700 hits, pick whichever you want. As far as i can tell hes the real deal and Id rather believe a fellow physicist than a politician. As far as I can make out Hitler blamed the decay of Germany on the Jews and set about his genocide solution. As far as i can make out Bush needs oil and needed to genocide a race of people to gain access. Thoss that live by the sword, die by the sword. Let us pray that Shakespeare was right. cheers rick1776 |
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Post by rick1776 on Jul 14, 2003 8:32:17 GMT -5
"What we saw can be described in only three words - Oh my God! The wounds were horrible, the contamination was extensive," -Douglas Rokke
Article from the Age newspaper. A Melbourne Newspaper. 23, June, 2003
Our troops suffer uranium sickness
June 23 2003
Uranium expert Dr Doug Rokke.
Related links:
Douglas Rokke: War casualties and depleted uranium
Australian servicemen and women who served in the recent Iraq war were reporting symptoms of uranium sickness, a United States nuclear weapons expert said today.
Dr Douglas Rokke is a former US Army nuclear health physicist and was formerly the Pentagon's expert on the health effects of depleted uranium ammunition.
Speaking in Melbourne today, Dr Rokke said Iraqi women and children and American and Iraqi military personnel had reported respiratory illnesses and rashes after the recent conflict, and he had also been told of Australian servicemen and women with similar symptoms.
"That's the reports I received from the US Army medical department. That's something that needs to be verified and looked into," he said.
"When American soldiers are sick and the Iraqis are sick there's nothing that says an Australian soldier is going to be isolated when he goes through those areas and he is not going to become ill.
During operation Desert Storm in 1991 Dr Rokke led a team assigned to clean up uranium contamination caused by friendly fire.
"What we saw can be described in only three words - Oh my God! The wounds were horrible, the contamination was extensive," he said.
"Although myself and my team members wore respiratory and skin protection, that protection we know today does not provide any adequate protection against the inhalation, the ingestion, the absorption of uranium compounds."
He said he now suffered rashes, respiratory problems, kidney problems and cataracts related to his exposure to uranium.
Dr Rokke is in Australia to speak against the use of depleted uranium weapons, which he describes as a crime against humanity, creating a toxicological nightmare.
He is campaigning for the outlawing of depleted uranium munitions, medical care for those who have been exposed to uranium and a clean-up of exposed environments.
He will speak at public meetings and meet government officials and returned service groups while in Australia.
"What I have learned from my work is that uranium munitions must be banned," Dr Rokke said.
"When we can no longer clean up the environment and we can no longer provide medical care for anybody that's exposed, then that weapon must never be used in conflict."
Jacob Grech, of the OzPeace Network, said while Australia did not use depleted uranium munitions, the country exported between 2500 and 3000 tonnes of uranium to the United States each year for energy.
"It's the waste energy products that is used in the manufacture of these munitions.
"From the very start, before they are even made, Australia and the Australian government is complicit in the production of these weapons."
"We'd like our government as a bare minimum to put Australian service veterans from the first and second Gulf wars, as well as Afghanistan, through rigorous testing to get a baseline study of exactly what the health effects are of depleted uranium and other chemical toxins ... and treat them," Mr Grech said.
"So far our government has been furphying, it's been releasing reports which parrot the Pentagon line six to 12 months later, it's been in a state of denial."
Mr Grech said he had not yet had reports of service personnel from the most recent conflict suffering uranium sickness, but there were a lot of veterans from the first Gulf war displaying symptoms.
"I think what we are going to see with Australian returned service people from the Gulf and Afghanistan is 20 years down the track exactly what happened with agent orange in Vietnam," Mr Grech said.
Words fail me. I for one will be voting that *unt we call our prime minister, Little Johnny Howard the lapdog, out of office at the next election.
It would appear that you can only be a war criminal if you are unlucky enough to be on the losing side.
cheers
rick1776
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Post by Srrh on Jul 14, 2003 8:51:06 GMT -5
If so many people had not been killed, I would actually enjoy this...from the very american abcnews (disney):
The administration faces trouble on credibility and casualties alike. Half the public thinks it "intentionally exaggerated" evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And 52 percent, a majority for the first time, call the level of U.S. casualties "unacceptable."
While 57 percent still say the war was worth fighting, that's fallen from 70 percent as the main fighting wound down at the end of April. Eighty percent now express concern about getting "bogged down in a long and costly peacekeeping mission"; 43 percent are "very concerned" about that outcome, up 11 points since last month.
Yea, baby...kick the unelected retarded coke snorting biggot out of Washington!!!!
Srrh
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