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Post by DeadCat on Jun 26, 2003 17:35:35 GMT -5
And if you think that means I feel like someone has ripped my guts out, you are absolutely correct… A glorification of war (Dubya’s view to the American people) www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/9232.ppsImages from the 1991 Gulf war… www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt_index.htmlusers3.ev1.net/~grahamr/We never actually saw on the news here on the footage of Dubya in full flight uniform onboard the aircraft carrier. But after some quick research on the net we realized why, the guy looks like he’s trying to fight the war himself…. You want propaganda…. (lets try for world peace) www.grunt.com/iraqbs.htmI feel sick… www.thememoryhole.org/war/gulfwar2/www.thememoryhole.org/war/gulfwar2/iraqi-military.htmI absolutely hate war; it’s the one single thing I do hate… I have personally seen first hand what it is capable off and there is always a better and more logical solution. Yet the western media still seems to glorify this act of killing and fighting as an act of bravery and courage. (Yes, my Grandfather fought against the Japanese back in 1943 but only in defence and he has never marched in any government provided rallies glorifying war.) How America somehow expects to be the good guys in all of this is beyond me. They attacked a sovereign nation. They went against the UN saying that they knew better. And the reports I read on the news everyday sicken me even more as the US try to justify the military force used to occupy a previously sovereign nation…. (DeadCat) PS. A lot was left out due to graphic content, but saying that at least 10,000 innocent civilians died from US munitions during the period of "war" would only be conservative.... PPS. Add to that the loss of life due to sanctions.... |
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Post by SG on Jun 27, 2003 2:46:21 GMT -5
i despise war and killing more than anything. war should only be used as a means to defend oneself. in the present case, it seems the lure of oil was just too much for the redneck to resist. as it were, he lied, got his own troops killled, got his own troops to murder even more innocent iraqis, and worse of all, opened the doors for the fundamentalists and terrorists to find yet another virgin terrotory to spread their hate. the logic defies me. dubya is a whole lot smarter then i had previously thought. the brilliance of his scheming, that he can actually come across as a "mean well" dumass while actually scheming to make himself rich is so bloody brilliant, it scares me. smokingun |
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Post by Srrh on Jun 27, 2003 9:00:08 GMT -5
, and worse of all, opened the doors for the fundamentalists and terrorists to find yet another virgin terrotory to spread their hate. the logic defies me. And me... S. |
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Post by DeadCat on Jun 27, 2003 9:46:09 GMT -5
This is just another opinionated post… i.e. this is just my opinion from the news sources available to me….
What are we hearing in the press….
- “Iraq’s international airport to soon open” (just imagine the tourism potential, you too can see a city devastated from years of US led international sanctions and also witness first hand the capable devastation of America’s most finest munitions. Let us take you on a cruise of munition concentration points and then onto through some border check-points where we will at some point be fired upon for doing nothing more than looking too innocent)
- “WMD will be found” (and this is from Dubya himself! Don’t look at me; he is the one who made this definitive statement. So if logic serves me right, if the US can not find what they said they would then the US’s chemical engineers will work out a way of producing these vial chemicals from local ingredients and then age them appropriately to fool the UN inspectors and then produce the hundreds of tons that they claimed Iraq had before the war and then hide them so that nobody but themselves can find them when appropriate. But that would be a conspiracy wouldn’t it?, has it ever happened before?), as I said before, don’t look at me.
Now really, both the US and UK both used this whole bullshit story that they had solid intelligence “above and beyond” what was available to the UN about the location, production and storage of mass amounts of WMD in Iraq (lol, we’re talking about a conservative estimate (Powells words, not mine) of 100 to 500 friggen tons worth, deployable on the field in 45 minutes) they also said it was so exact that they couldn’t give any further information to the UN as they didn’t want to reveal their sensitive sources….
Talk about a complete total bullshit pretext for war. (In the days leading up to the invasion, Iraq had already unwillingly destroyed under UN supervision, 75 out its total 110 field arsenal of only just barely illegal missiles and was destroying more and more every day under UN supervision, apparently under UN tests the missile type travelled 10 miles too far, lol. Maybe the UN should ban the US cruise missile that also has a nuclear capacity and an effective range of nearly 5,500 km’s. Talk about poor sportsmanship)
Now, before the official start of the war, not only did the US and UK effectively have complete intelligence on all of the Iraqi military installations (after being able to run un-interfered intelligence recon flights) but the UN had now also effectively disabled the countries main missile defence system even before they invaded, it was (and is) a great war tactic, unless of course you were one of the thousands of unsuspecting civilians not knowing just what an advanced heavy US munition is capable off when it falls within 50 metres of your house and splatters shrapnel randomly (as designed) through anyone within 100 metres of the radius of the explosion. (That is unless your whole apartment block is flattened, cause then you would be classified as an unidentifiable combatant and as such classified as a combatant and not a civilian)
As a side note, I’m also led to believe that the US still possess and actively maintains no less than 25,000 thermo-nuclear warheads…. (Still enough to destroy the world 2-3 times over), if you wanted a one-sided global superpower, well, we got it!
- What did that insane writer George Orwell insinuate in his writings about an absolute power? (so right he was)
Back to global reality…
From what I see in today’s world, International Law in this global society has now officially gone out the window….
First of all, please let me explain that I do not at all hold the American people (including TC, or T3, or any of his gun stoking buddies, I mean that btw) being in anyway responsible for any of this… But I do have some questions for their government (which always seems to decline to answer on more occasions than any other governmental department in the world, besides the military governed and communist countries, but this isn’t really about the freedom of people is it?)…
Why are there still over 650 detainees under US control from the so-called “war” against Afghanistan over a year and a half ago? (They’re probably nearly eligible for citizenship) – I even hear rumours that they are now building death chambers for them??
How are these people/detainees classified? Surely they must be classified as POW’s as it was America that declared the so-called “war” on terrorism as reason enough to invade a relatively defenceless (although somewhat historically violent) Afghanistan. Have these detainees violated international law? If yes, why are they not tried by the international tribunal and sentenced accordingly, why are they still being detained without trial against international law? Do the Red Cross have access to these POW’s? Why is there talk of executing some prisoners?
And what’s going on in Afghanistan today after America’s invasion? Why is this not being reported on US news? Is it now a liberated free country with democratic elections, or is it just the same old shit hole it was before with just a new zealous self-serving religious government installed that still hates the Americans (mainly out of education, but partially now for the death of family members) and that still tolerates the massive lawlessness and religious killings but with a very nicely built and well guarded oil pipeline? (Can anyone find anything positive about this invasion)? Are the Taliban still attacking? I thought they were defeated…
Back to the detainees, the UN Treaty of 1946 (if I remember correctly, it’s the amended version just after WWII) stipulates that all POW’s must be released quickly and without delay after the “war” has ended (including minimum pay for the detained period). What the hell happen there? Has the “war” with Afghanistan not ended yet?
Back to Iraq,
Just who is authorising the detaining of Iraqi suspects? Dubya said over two months ago that the “war” was over and that both the Iraqi military and government had been dissolved, so why carry on the hunt for these people? Are they still a threat? Why are normal Iraqi people still detained? Is there still a declared “war” or have they committed war crimes that will be tried in front of the international war crimes tribunal? Or does International Law not apply to the only super power in the world? (The only other possibility is that the US is colonising Iraq, it appears to be a great way to go around the UN laws on occupation.)
Why have more that 50 US Servicemen (that have been reported) died from attacks from US-UK media-called “Saddam Loyalists” (that incidentally seem to call themselves “Freedom Fighters” and are not just Iraqi nationals), could it not just be that the residents of this region of the world don’t like the thought of being colonised by a country that represses it’s religious beliefs and that they are trying to protect their own culture from the Americana world? (Which mind you in itself doesn’t have a very good reputation pretty much around the globe; see – children shooting each other at school, people suing over coffee being too hot, and not to mention that whole OJ thing…).
Call me a left wing separatist, but something here just doesn’t seem to add up, for me anyway. It was widely reported that the US spent more than 80 odd billion dollars on the “war”/invasion of Iraq (which included some 15M padding for the support of Israel while they were at it??) and in which by pure military force they effectively destroyed Iraq’s core infrastructure, removed the government and protective forces and thus reduced its cities to seething sess pits, they then allowed even further internal destruction whilst somehow managing to fully protect all the oil related industries…. (What does the Geneva Convention state about the protection of civilians and the use of cluster bombs in residential areas? Yet we still hear that kids in Iraq are playing soccer with little shiny yellow canisters and bringing them home only to find that someone kicked it too hard and there’s another 2-3 are dead)
Why war? Was there not another way? Any way is better than war…..
Furthermore, I was utterly disgusted at the way US government initially lifted US sanctions on Iraq even before requesting the UN do the same. It was almost like blackmail the way the US continually hammered the UN about Iraq’s policies and then in an instant they backed down for their own good (see: WMD, we found them in a trailer). They essentially gave the UN little choice so that they could use the Iraqi’s own oil revenues that are meant to support the Iraqi people, to help them with the monetary costs to rebuild the infrastructure that America’s own very expensive munitions destroyed during an act of invasion. Not only that, but now America is calling for the world’s monetary support to help it rebuild a nation that America itself essentially blasted the shit out of and supported mass sanctions against to ensure the country was in poverty. (Maybe they should call it the bombs for oil campaign as that pretty much covers it; we bomb your city, and your oil pays for it to our construction companies for rebuilding.) – If you don’t like my attitude on this, look at just how much of America’s GDP is spent in munition research…
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Post by DeadCat on Jun 27, 2003 9:48:17 GMT -5
I understand that for the sake of the world’s present sociological relations the US may very well get their wish…. (The real price will be a sharp decline in global trust and global social unity, something that in the last five decades of accomplishment had come a long way) To the American Government, I am not with you nor am I against you… (and with Dubya, because I’m not with you it somehow makes me the enemy) (DeadCat) I can only thank America’s forefathers that this current dick of a president can be voted out of office; though it was looking pretty grim there for a while…. Postscript: Although my thoughts go much deeper on this subject, I purposely tried to only cover the surface issues, as there is so much to dislike about the current situation in world politics and I wish not the wrath of all my anger upon you… (at least not all at once) At least we can try to make the world a better place……… PPS, I remember seeing on the news during the start of the invasion of Iraq that some US troops were still writing messages about the WTC disaster on munitions destined for Iraq. On this I just closed my eyes and thought, “why are people so stupid”…… PPPS, I do support the eradication of Saddam as a heartless killer, now if only the US had the same policies for Cambodia, China, Burma, Laos, Nth Korea and Vietnam. (Many millions per year could be saved). After that they could also go liberate Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines. I guess it’s purely natural resources that become a barrier in all of this …. (Though they did try Vietnam, I guess that’s there is some kind of political barrier there)  |
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Post by Danny Boy on Jun 28, 2003 1:47:04 GMT -5
DC, Parts of Afghanistan are booming; Afghanistan will have a bumper Opium harvest this year; Warlords are charging far more “Road Tolls” for the Aids Agencies Convoys to go into their country; Child prostitution in “Gypsy Villages” is rife again and of course hookers are being “bussed” in to satisfy the American (and other) troops. The Taliban were not defeated, they were removed from power to make way for a friendly government who would award the gas/oil development/pipeline to an American company and not the South American Company decided upon by the aforementioned “Evil Taliban”. Just think; if it was not for “that man who lived in a cave” bombing the WTC and the Pentagon, Afghanistan and Iraq would not have happened and isreal would still be vilified by the world at large for the daily murder, abuse and stealing of land from Palestinians. It's a strange world is it not  |
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Post by Danny Boy on Jun 28, 2003 2:05:09 GMT -5
This used to be the attitude of moderate Arabs here in the Middle East, however, since Iraq, the feeling is now “the country gets the politicians it deservers” and if American citizens are willing to allow their politicians to run rough-shod over the rights of other countries, they deserve whatever retribution the more radical members of the Arab community dish out.
You may have noticed that large orders were placed from the Middle East with Airbus and miniscule orders with Boeing. This was quite deliberate and will be a continuing trend, although it will not be openly stated, as this will lead to Boeing holding up spare parts for the aircraft already owned by these airlines.
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Post by DeadCat on Jun 28, 2003 20:25:11 GMT -5
Danny Boy,
Not sure if anyone noticed but there was also a brutal 10-week war on drugs in Thailand during the US invasion of Iraq. At least 2200 people were killed in this offensive.
(Not to mention the brutal military offensive in Thailand during the '91 Iraq war that claimed over 40,000 lives....)
(DeadCat)
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Post by JWK on Jun 28, 2003 20:34:53 GMT -5
good posts deadcat.
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Post by Danny Boy on Jun 28, 2003 21:40:27 GMT -5
DeadCat; Yes I knew about the latest "War on drugs" my understanding was it was against drug gangs more than the growers.
I did not know about the 91 thing though, 40,000 killed, jesus thats a large number. Was that a government/police/army thing as well?
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Post by Henrik on Jun 30, 2003 14:03:54 GMT -5
Good post DeadCat, reflecting many of my thoughts.
Just a little point that I thought of while reading your post. POW should be released after the war is over. However, my understanding was that the US declared war on terrorism! Now I'm sure we can all agree that this is a war that can never be won, and so will never end. Thus they can always fall back on that as a pretext to treat thos POW as they see fit....
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Post by raptor22 on Jun 30, 2003 17:30:22 GMT -5
woah some excellent stuff around here. Thanks for that post DC  |
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Post by DeadCat on Jul 8, 2003 16:31:54 GMT -5
You’re all welcome, I needed to blow off some steam and I’m glad it wasn’t taken the wrong way… Danny Boy, Some more misinformation about the military coup in Thailand, February 1991: search.bangkokpost.co.th/bkkpost/2003/feb2003/bp20030217/news/17Feb2003_news16.htmlwww.hrw.org/reports/1993/WR93/Asw-11.htmI still remember driving through the capital in 1993, (down near the massive roundabout on the Rama IV’s side of the Pinkao bridge) while my wife described the scene with bodies decaying everywhere and the streets soaked with blood, (she protested with them initially but then decided to stay at home as the tension mounted, she was only a student at the time). She also pointed out a number of buildings that were used as slaughterhouses during the build up to the above reported events. As you would know, the Thai people are a very proud people that will speak no evil of their country, King, or government. Many of those who were killed were never documented (i.e. farmers and factory workers), how could a family complain to a government when it can’t read or write. Please also bear in mind that it was a country where they don’t need a reason to put you in jail, (a bit like the US these days). Needless to say the King stepped in and regained control of the people before too much more blood was shed and in 1992 a new elected government was formed… I also hear it now being called a bloodless coup; I can assure you from the people I have spoken too that it was anything but bloodless…. (You can’t seriously believe a military can take over a civilian government an install military rule in an Southeast Asia country with massive protests from the people and only have 50 people dying, lol. They lost over 500 people during Songkran day this year alone, during celebrations…) (DeadCat) |
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