Happy now

[Danny Boy]

To any of you who, a few weeks ago, were experiencing orgasmic delight at the bombing and destruction of a defenseless country. How do you feel now, after the bombing in Saudi, with many dead and many more horrifically wounded.
Whilst the leaders of these groups would have always wished to carry out this attack, it was Bush's Act of Aggression that has given so many more recruits for "ANY" anti american movement. If there were 100,000 potential suicide bombers before the invasion of Iraq, there are now 10,000,000. Not only that, the vast majority of the Arab population now support, or at least take some enjoyment from, the death of "ANY" americans by Muslim/Arab groups. Don't believe the TV footage of Arabs expressing regret for what happened, I was in a coffee shop yesterday morning and it was "The Arab Businessmen" who were saying this attack was justified, not just the kids on the street.

The leaders of this racist American attitude to the rest of the World, or at least the rest of the World that could have any possible threat to israel, will not be the one’s to suffer. No, as usual, it will be Joe Public who take the hate (justifiable) and suffer the consiquences.

PS I have changed the opening paragraph at the suggestion of Srrh. However the phrase " orgasmic delight" is what I see in a lot of American opinion on TV such as Fox News etc. And it pisses me off.

[Srrh]

My dearest Danny Boy,

I agree with much of what you said. Including in this very thread. I think it had to happen. Violence calls for violence and the killing of thousands of arab civilians by coalition force would obviously be a cause for calls of revenge. And this is just the beginning...Americans were always very insular...well, now they'll have to be as 75% of the outside world positively HATES them. It's pretty much open season on US citiyzens...Unfortunatly, others get cought in the cross fires....(canadians and phillipinos in this case)
But the following sentence:

Danny said:

To all of you who, a few weeks ago, were experiencing orgasmic delight at the bombing and destruction of a defenseless country....

really bothers me.
Orgasmic delight ? C'mon...

S....

[justan A friend of America]

This was not the first attack on Americans/etc nor will it be the last.

They (Arabs) should ask Joseuf Iraqi how they feel about the war.

Iraq had very little if anything to do with that bombing. It must have been in the pipeline for months. America was never the friend of the Muslim world in the fanatic's view. Nothing new.

As long as the State of Israel exists the Muslim fanatics will have a reason to be active. If the Yanks dump their support they will be hero's of Islam for a day. My opinion only

[justan]

“If those idiots think they are fighting for a cause that is their religion they had better re-read the Qur’an,” said Deborah Zahid, a French Muslim married to a Saudi businessman. “If they were true Muslims, they would be having fatour (breaking bread) with the Americans rather than going and killing them at night.”

[justan]

Australia said Al-Qaeda network was likely behind the bomb attacks. “We don’t have any information about Australians being hurt...and our impression is that it is likely to be an Al-Qaeda operation, particularly as there has been forewarning of a possible Al-Qaeda attack in Saudi Arabia,” Foreign Minister Alexander Downer told Australian Broadcasting Corp radio.

[who won]

This is far from the first attack on Westerners.

Who is happy now?

[JWK]

Guest-justan said:

They (Arabs) should ask Joseuf Iraqi how they feel about the war.

They, by what i have seen are of the opinion 'shalom, thank you for liberating us, we can now do as we wish, now if you would please get out of my way and my country, i am on my way to be manipulated to a fundamentalist muslim clerics whim. thank you good day'

i agree with the moral basis for getting rid of Saddam, but the way in which it was undertaken was incredibly, incredibly shortsighted.

I think most of you have read my disposition towards the war etc and hopefully have taken in some of my points without dismissing them outright so i wont go into that now.

[RacerX]

Danny Boy,

I've been reading alot of the BS here, and have done my best not to reply. So much is very SLANTED, and quite frankly there's probably not too good of a chance to have a reasonable discussion over it. It's too political for me & I think perhaps you too. However, this one gets a quickie from me...LOL...bare with me, it's probably coming from the massive build up of all the political posts I've read here lately.

Anyway, in brief, blaming Bush for what just took place in Saudi makes about as much sense as Bush saying you're either with us, or against us.

I'm willing to bet my next 100 paychecks that if Bush hadn't have gone into Iraq (what you laughingly call a defensless country), the Saudi bombings would still take place. You seem to miss the point that these people are straight up fanatics.

They're crazy & ignorant.

That's a SERIOUS combination, begging for trouble. These poeple are uneducated, and basically a bunch of raving lunatics.

If you think Bush was the reason for the recent Saudi bombings, you're fooling yourself.

I know, I know, he (Bush) is the master of all Evil, and in your eyes he's the ignorant one, responsible for the deaths of "thousands of Arabs"...(please)...but if that's the case, then can you explain the Cole bombing? The previous embassy bombings & barrack bombings? I don't think Bush was even a political "blip" on the radar screen then, was he?

I know you know Bush isn't the root of this crap, but when I read your posts, it doesn't show.

I understand you're incredibly angry too. I understand. But your continual bombardment of Bush & America??? Wuff...

*bing* turn the page...


Anyway, Back to the "defensless" country of Iraq. LOL, tell the 10,000 to possibly 20,000 muslims he's murdered (evidence uncovered just this week: mass graves of muslims buried while alive) that Iraq was defensless. Tell the 250,000 Marsh Arabs that too. Yes, poor-poor Saddam, he was helpless & defensless. Wuff.

BTW- where's your proof that American bombs killed THOUSANDS of innocent civillians in Iraq? This is a baseless claim that can't be backed up with facts.

War sucks. But when you're at war, you kill the enemy. That's how you win (if you can call it winning). Did the US bomb the horsesh*t out of military people in Iraq? Hell yes. That's WAR. Did they kill THOUSANDS? Right now the estimate is pretty messed up, depending on who you believe, but I've read figures between 3 and 7 thousand military personel killed. These are ESTIMATED figures.

Grrr...I could go on & on, and I'm sure you could too, so I'll call it a night. Anyway, I'm just saying that there's two sides to every story, and in this case there's probably three or four, or more...

To make a long answer short: No, I don't think anyone's happy about the bombings in Saudi, except a few ignorant fanatics that think they're killing evil infidels...LOL, now there's the real joke.

Wuff,
RacerX

[smokingun]

RacerX,
i agree with most you say. these cowards are uneducated slobs who will beleive anything their depraved mullahs tell them. everything they do, they do it because they *think* there are 72 virgins waiting for them in heaven. i can just imagine it.
Arsehole:"Heyyy!! i made it, this must be heaven. where are my ho's promised to me??"
virgin no 1:"hello dumbshit, what can i do for you??, never mind that the only reason i am a virgin in heaven is that no man on earth would touch me with a 10 foot pole, even iff they were on pot"
Arsehole(looking down):"damn!! looks like i blew off more than i imagined down south. well for fvcks sake, i'm in heaven for all eternity now, but my poor little pecker is still somewhere on earth. O may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the groins of mulla al-dick-sucker"
virgin no 1: "oh well, untill the next idiot comes along. and given that mulla-dick-sucker takes to shagging camels your curse will bear fruit" (facing the other virgins) "cover up girls, dumbshit here is heading over to the eunachs section to join his other incomplete buddies. try not to smirk as he passes you by, remember he did what he did because he was genuinly stupid"

ok i know it sucks. but what sucks even more is trying to justify the acts of these arse-wipes.

but i'd admit one thing, i do beleve bush invaded iraq not to liberate the iraquis but to get kickbacks. bottom line, there is oil for the taking. under saddam, the iraquis would never get any of it. under the texan oil companies at least they get some of the loot. everyone wins.

and as for being happy, no i am not happy that innocent people get killed. and i hope they catch and fry the scum that do these acts.

smokingun

[JWK]

Please do not belittle the beliefs of an entire culture.

[smokingun]

JWK said:

Please do not belittle the beliefs of an entire culture.

nope not the entire culture, just the cowardly idiots who instigate, support, perform and condone despicable acts against innocent people. i think the onus should lie with the "entire culture" in question to come clean and weed out the scum in their backyards. celebrating the killings on the streets earns them no sympathy from me.

smokingun

[Danny Boy]

RacerX; Just to reply to your post.

RX; Anyway, in brief, blaming Bush for what just took place in Saudi makes about as much sense as Bush saying you're either with us, or against us.

Me; When Bush went into Iraq with his illegal invasion; the Arab World saw “Wonton and needless destruction of the countries infrastructure, except for the Oil Fields” They also saw American news reporters/readers/experts, gloating over every aspect of the “made for television war”. They saw American flags being hoisted and flown in an Arab countries. They saw hundreds of dead and wounded Iraqi civilians; far more than the sanitized pictures you saw (do you think the massive Bomb dropped on a restaurant to kill Saddam was designed not to kill any passers-by or local residents?) They saw a country, with NO AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM, being mercilessly bombed and attacked by missiles. They saw “in essence” the very things they see (on a smaller scale) the israelis do every day in Palestine.

RX; They're crazy & ignorant.

Me; ANYONE who blindly accepts religious doctrine, of any persuasion, is crazy and ignorant. To call people uneducated and a bunch of raving lunatics is to show, to my mind, an uneducated response to a problem. I personally feel, that the Catholic religion has been responsible for more misery and poverty than any other religion.

RX; can you explain the Cole bombing? The previous embassy bombings & barrack bombings? I don't think Bush was even a political "blip" on the radar screen then, was he?

Me;This is an on going dispute with America’s policy of blindly supporting israel, no matter what atrocity they carry out, if fact, that is the reason behind this Saudi bombing. I say this, as there have been several car bombs in the last 2 years, these however, are a direct result of an “illegal Booze war” between the American and British residents in Saudi.

RX; I understand you're incredibly angry too. I understand.

Me; I knew 2 of the people killed in the attack, so yes, I am incredibly angry.

RX; Anyway, Back to the "defenseless" country of Iraq. LOL, tell the 10,000 to possibly 20,000 muslims he's murdered (evidence uncovered just this week: mass graves of muslims buried while alive) that Iraq was defenseless. Tell the 250,000 Marsh Arabs that too. Yes, poor-poor Saddam, he was helpless & defenseless.

Me; How many people died in America’s civil war? Why was Eddie Slovak shot by the American army in WW2. The people killed in Iraq were trying to overthrow the leadership, the same as has happened in many countries when there is political conflict. There have been thousands of people killed by the Ruling Families in Saudi, Kuwait, Doha and Bahrain, to protect their Despotic Rule.

RX; where's your proof that American bombs killed THOUSANDS of innocent civilians in Iraq? This is a baseless claim that can't be backed up with facts.

Me; I don’t think I have ever claimed that? Certainly not in this post. However, I will say that thousands “WILL” die as a result of medical, and other, problems bought about by the invasion.

RX; War sucks. But when you're at war, you kill the enemy. That's how you win (if you can call it winning). Did the US bomb the horsesh*t out of military people in Iraq? Hell yes. That's WAR. Did they kill THOUSANDS? Right now the estimate is pretty messed up, depending on who you believe, but I've read figures between 3 and 7 thousand military personel killed. These are ESTIMATED figures.

Me; Iraq was not “AT WAR” they were illegally invaded, they do not have the military power or equipment to fight the Swiss Army, let alone the “Coalition of the United Nations Law Breakers”.

RacerX I never have a problem with your posts, in fact I enjoy your contribution. If you find anything in my post that is personally insulting or offensive, it is not intentional. I know I can be blunt sometimes, but that is part of my “Southern English Charm”

[Danny Boy]

It is quite amazing that people rush to write reply’s to a post without understanding the main crux of the post.
My “BIG” concern, is the dramatic increase in the number of, zealots, fanatic’s, freedom fighters, call them what you will, who are now willing to carry out these attacks. I am not joking with those figures of 100,000 now up to 10,000,000. And this is a direst result of what happened in Iraq.
Let us not forget, the invasion of Iraq was illegal, what we saw was a country that said, we are big enough and strong enough to do what we want, we don’t care about the rights and wrongs. This is fuel for all the radical extremists, Saudi is swamped with people willing to “take the fight to the American people” other countries will soon be facing similar problems. A case in point is the 2 bombers from England who went to israel to carry out a bomb attack.
Until the Iraq invasion people here (Bahrain) were generally of the opinion that, Joe Public in America was not concerned or responsible for the actions of the government. That has now changed, the opinion now is, the American people have the power to change their government but they are not interested in the well-being of other people so they deserve to bear the brunt of Arab anger and if that is a car bomb in Saudi Arabia, then so be it. Bear in mind, I am talking about Bahrain, and Bahrain is the most liberal of the Middle Eastern Countries.

[smokingun]

Danny said:

It is quite amazing that people rush to write reply’s to a post without understanding the main crux of the post.
My “BIG” concern, is the dramatic increase in the number of, zealots, fanatic’s, freedom fighters, call them what you will, who are now willing to carry out these attacks. I am not joking with those figures of 100,000 now up to 10,000,000. And this is a direst result of what happened in Iraq.

fair enough DannyBoy. i apologise for implying that you condone or sympathise with these acts when there is nothing in yout post to substantiate such a claim by me.

Danny said:

Let us not forget, the invasion of Iraq was illegal, what we saw was a country that said, we are big enough and strong enough to do what we want, we don’t care about the rights and wrongs.

far be it for me to play americas advocate. but if my memory serves me correct what was right and wrong was very much a concern of america. others may not agree with their perception of what is right and what isn't. bottom line, if the iraquis can learn to live like civilized people and use religion the way it is meant to be used, they can lead a very very comfy life, indeed much better than other saddam. the choice is now in their hands. they have been liberated. what do they want to do with this freedom?? would they choose to embrace humanity as a whole, work to improve their quality of life, rebuild their country and prosper given that they are blessed with amazing amounts of wealth OR would they choose to become fanatical cowards and go the same way as taliban?? end of the day america did what she felt was correct, it is now upto the iraquie to seize this wonderfull oppurtunity and get on with their lives. they have suffered enough.

Danny said:

This is fuel for all the radical extremists, Saudi is swamped with people willing to “take the fight to the American people” other countries will soon be facing similar problems. A case in point is the 2 bombers from England who went to israel to carry out a bomb attack.

and these brave radical fighters would be willing to fight face to face or choose to bomb innocent people?? i have this this opinion that these maggots aren't all that brave just sorry, depraved losers. if we pulled back from doing something good just because some nutcase getts cheesed off, we might as well just sleep in bed and do nothing. and even then there will be some nutcase who'd get offended. bottom line, the world is full of idiots. let them factor in your decision making and you might as well join their fold.

Danny said:

Until the Iraq invasion people here (Bahrain) were generally of the opinion that, Joe Public in America was not concerned or responsible for the actions of the government. That has now changed, the opinion now is, the American people have the power to change their government but they are not interested in the well-being of other people so they deserve to bear the brunt of Arab anger and if that is a car bomb in Saudi Arabia, then so be it. Bear in mind, I am talking about Bahrain, and Bahrain is the most liberal of the Middle Eastern Countries.

now this is what worries me the most, i'll admit as much. i have some very close friends in bahrain, and although they are muslim, they are nothing like the terrorists, far from it. indeed some of them despise the terrorists coz they feel that they get a bad name because of these dingbats. i wold second that statement that bahrain is perhaps the most liberal of west asian countries and if attitudes in bahrain are changing towards the radical, then yes, there is a reason to be concerned. but what they were in the past is of little importance. if they choose to become raving foaming in the mouth lunatics and allow themselves to be deceived, they cease to be human in my book and that means, *anything* goes when dealing with them. and i am talking only about those that choose to instigate, condone, sympathise with, perform and conspire to perform acts of terrorism against innocent people.

smokingun

[Srrh]

Rx,
Good to read from you as usual.
You make many valid points. I agree with you that it would have happened with or without the invasion of Irak.
But I also agree with DB that "If there were 100,000 potential suicide bombers before the invasion of Iraq, there are now 10,000,000." Lots of people just need a cause to express their violence: their it is.
One thing though, I think I can answer, and it's the following.

RacerX said:

BTW- where's your proof that American bombs killed THOUSANDS of innocent civillians in Iraq? This is a baseless claim that can't be backed up with facts.

Well, it's simple math. Thousands, with an s, means at least 2 thousand.
Now, the number of dead on the Iraqi side during the first gulf war is recognised to be roughly 300.000.(UN numbers- and I ain't counting the half million of iraqui kids that died since).

Now let say that this invasion was 150 times "cleaner" then the last one, and you've got 2000 dead. Thus thousandS.

And from you to me, 2000 seems incredibly low for ANY war. It is rather obvious that more then that will die just because of the bad post-war hygene conditions...

Find me a war in the 20th century with less then 2000 dead civilians? Iran-iraq? Yugoslavia? Rwanda ? Congo ? Vietnam ? Korea ? Tchechnia? Kasmire? Afghanistan? Colombia? Nicaragua? Flaklands?

Rx, why would you think that this one was different? Modern war always equals thousands of dead civilians.
US or no US....

BTW: If you remember, I was of the opinion that the US should take Saddam out. Remember the thread "the US should take out Saddam"?

Take care
S....