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Post by Wycco on Jun 6, 2003 8:11:24 GMT -5
Errrm...
High school economics... the less scarce a commodity is, the lower the cost.
Supply exceeds demand.
Opening up a country with one of the worlds largest oil reserves to an international market- will LOWER the cost of oil per barrel... not increase the cost... Thus people who already own oil wells will see a drop in money- not gain money...
That is the reason OPEC cuts oil production every so often... so they can get more $$$$ per barrel. Texas oil-field owners are going to lose out, not gain money from this deal!
Unless you're trying to suggest that Bush is going to keep the oil wells for himself and the other Texas oil barons?
I assure you that won't happen.
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Post by raptor22 on Jun 6, 2003 8:14:27 GMT -5
Danny, Thanks for the vote but I'm not running for office just yet. Henrik Like I always say, make Love not war Wycco, apologies yes you said it was A solution. I did not mean to imply that you said it was the best although I did . well it's nopt goingto make everyone rich but then yur government does'nt have everyones interst at heart does it? Which is why I feel strongly that the American public really should take a stand. A verbal stand, a physical stand and change your government. They are only going to make your lifes and ours more miserable so they can live in their ivory towers f global domination. I would far rather have a few unscrupulous dictators around the world and know that democrasy and due process works and can achieve results, than live under the shaddow of an economic and physical bully who willl only allow me to live a fair life if it suits them.
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Post by Wycco on Jun 6, 2003 8:23:04 GMT -5
Raptor,
If I had a vote- I WOULD vote AGAINST Bush...
In my mind he is the worst President America has had in my lifetime.
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Post by daSilva on Jun 6, 2003 9:16:56 GMT -5
I would far rather have a few unscrupulous dictators around the world and know that democrasy and due process works and can achieve results, than live under the shaddow of an economic and physical bully who willl only allow me to live a fair life if it suits them. You have obviously never lived under one of those dictators.
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Post by Danny Boy on Jun 6, 2003 9:26:37 GMT -5
da-silva; Never lived under a dictator, Raptor comes from South Africa for gods sake. Not sure if he is black, white, or a rainbow??? And it does not matter, what the people from SA have witnessed in the last 20 years should give them a grounding in any political debate
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Post by daSilva on Jun 6, 2003 9:37:11 GMT -5
Well if he's white I would say he had it easy until the end of apartheid and then he seems to have fled the country. But their white officials were always elected by the white minority since the black population were not allowed to vote. So if he is white I don't believe he HAS seen oppression.
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Post by Danny Boy on Jun 6, 2003 10:00:14 GMT -5
A lot of White South African were in the ANC and fighting against apartheid rule, alongside the Black's in the 80's and 90's. Several of them paid for their beliefs with their lives during this time
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Post by daSilva on Jun 6, 2003 10:02:36 GMT -5
I'll bet you a million dollars that Raptor was not a member of the ANC.
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Post by raptor22 on Jun 6, 2003 10:25:24 GMT -5
Da Silva, my official Apartheid race classification was:
Coloured. Ie a person of mixed decent.
All it really meant was people like myself were disenfranchised, no voting rights, had to endure restricted movements, got crammed into the back of the train etc, Our schools were over crowded (40 per class) and the teachers victimised for their political leanings.
Ever been shot at??? Ever been chased down the street by a fully armed, uniformed policemen with a rotweiler leading the way. All because you wanted the right to vote. Ever been been thrown into the back of a police van and escorted to the nearest police station? The crime: walking on a beach designated "WHITES ONLY" No?
I believe i understand what it means to live under an oppresive regime.
I might add that despite the protestation of American & British citizens, your governments were still providing weapons technology to the SA government for use in riot control, ie to shoot people like me. I wonder when the american people are going to wake up and apologise. We don't want your words, your actions will suffice. Stand up for whats right reintroduce democracy in your government, change your foreign policy and stop judging people who are different from you as uncivilsied or not as good.
Americans,............Open your eyes.
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Post by raptor22 on Jun 6, 2003 10:33:21 GMT -5
PSS; you make up your own mind about my political affiliation....
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Post by daSilva on Jun 6, 2003 10:37:53 GMT -5
Thx for clarifying. BTW I'm not American.
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Post by Srrh on Jun 6, 2003 10:38:45 GMT -5
I would far rather have a few unscrupulous dictators around the world and know that democrasy and due process works and can achieve results, than live under the shaddow of an economic and physical bully who willl only allow me to live a fair life if it suits them. I lived under both, errrr, I still prefer the system that has the appearence of Democracy... And I think that anyone who has been arrested for no reason (apart from being in the wrong place, with the wrong people at the wrong time) in a dictatorial state would agree... Now my question is this... Why are you (we) guys so worked up about this...? America IS the most powerful nation on eath at the moment...it has no altruistic intentions...it's only goal is to remain the only super power around...it's the nature of "beast"...The role of the US administration is NOT to make the world a better place...The only interest of the US is the US...and why shouldn't it be ? War is the continuation of politics through other means...and the policy of the world's only Mega-power is to remain the world's only mega-power... Why is it that shoking ? It maybe sad for all the humanists around (me included), but that is what realpolitiks is all about. s.
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Post by daSilva on Jun 6, 2003 11:07:15 GMT -5
Perhaps you should put a picture up of yourself in the photoalbum so this confusion would not have happened.
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Post by Topcontender on Jun 6, 2003 11:16:41 GMT -5
Well with Greoge W Bush loosing the next election I am gonna say fat chance. Like it or not Iraq is a better place w/o saddam. The american public sees that, and that is why his poll numbers stay so high. Most importantly, the DOW and the economy seems to have picked up speed. With that combination, as long as it stays the course he wont loose.
Clinton had sex, Bush killed? Yeah right like clinton never shot at anyone. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Mogadishu, and that BS pop shot at bin laden are cases where he killed for no reason.
WAR for OIL? if it was over oil, we would have sayed in Iraq in 1991. In fact we were not the ones buying all of Iraq's oil after the gulf war were we? Nope, that honour goes to France, and Russia who both broke the rules and invested billions in oil contracts in Iraq.
last point, under clinton we were asked to go into Yugoslavia and help out the "ethnic cleansing." Clinton after his somolia debacle decides to bomb instead of sending in troops. We bombed that place so bad that half the time we probably hit civilians half of the time. So he was a hero for that? It seems as long as a problem like that exhists in europes backyard, it was a green light to go in there. However, the same thing happens in Iraq, and it is a sin!! Also let me me add we did this W/O a UN security council resolution.
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Post by worthless on Jun 6, 2003 12:27:57 GMT -5
I promised myself I wouldn't jump into this shark tank, but here goes anyway..... rapt: I think you underestimate americans. We are fully aware of the atrocities of the world and the atrocities committed by our own gov't. I will not apologise, however, for things that I have absolutely control over. I was born into this world - I didn't create it. You stated earlier that the american public 'allowed' this war to happen. Bullsh*t. I take action - I vote. And I speak my mind. What would you like me to do - assassinate someone? Would that help? Hold a picket sign, perhaps (that's been sooo effective in the past). All I can do is vote. (and I didn't vote for your buddy GWB, either) The fact is that you seem to be holding the american commoner responsible for things that I cannot possibly stop. Yes, in an ideal world I could speak out and my local congressman would listen and act. Where might this ideal world be? It isn't here. You might be thinking that my attitude is the type that 'allows' such horrible things to happen. The old 'one person can make a difference,' standpoint. Well I 've tried in the past and I will continue to try until the day I die to vote for the individuals that I feel are right for office. But unless I become CEO of microsoft, the polls are the only place that I have influence. Sorry, but that's the truth. "Ever been shot at?" Yes. "Ever been chased down the street by a fully armed, uniformed policemen with a rotweiler leading the way." Yes - it was a doberman actually. Been tear-gased. Been threatened by a policeman just for walking home from my job. I understand what that feels like. If WMD are not found, the american people will be pissed. I'm already pissed. It is the first story on the news every night....'where are they.' The media won't pass up this goldmine. *as a side note, my neighbor is USAF intelligence, and he just got back last week. He told me that he saw intell photos that the Iraqis were destroying the WMD 4 days before the war started. There was nothing that they could do. He told me that the beauracracy/ politics of the situation won't allow them to release the photos. No one would believe them anyway - they'd think they were doctured.
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