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Post by justan on Apr 9, 2003 11:10:43 GMT -5
If Hussein is off to Russia, which I doubt but if he is, good riddance to bad rubbish. Russia,France,and Germany are having a meeting in Russia, perhaps he can be the guest speaker. Now on to the Arab Media, how are they explaining the scenes of outright joy and celebration of the Iraqis especially towards the invaders, the coalition forces? Doesn't that sort of put a hole in their propaganda balloons. Of course the Coalition has to be good on their word and not act like they just conquered Iraq but are there to help Iraq. Now in Baghdad the hard part begins.
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Post by Srrh on Apr 9, 2003 13:26:51 GMT -5
Reporters Without Borders calls for an impartial, objective and independent enquiry by the International Humanitarian Fact-Finding Commission Reporters Without Borders called today on the International Humanitarian Fact-Finding Commission to urgently investigate the bombing of journalists in Iraq which it said was a war crime under international law. It said the "unsatisfactory" explanations given by US officials for attacks on journalists in Baghdad this week underlined the need for the Commission to look into such violations of the Geneva Conventions on treatment of civilians in wartime. "We asked you on 1 April to investigate the bombing of Iraqi TV headquarters but we received no reply," said Reporters Without Borders secretary-general Robert Ménard in a letter to the Commission's president, Sir Kenneth Keith. "We are now approaching you again to urge you to carry out your duty to investigate these attacks and others on journalists and media covering the war in Iraq. Attacks on civilians, which include journalists, and on civilian property are war crimes and serious violations of the Geneva Conventions," he said. "The neighbouring Baghdad offices of the Arab TV stations Al-Jazeera and Abu Dhabi TV, as well as the Palestine Hotel - both known to US forces as places where journalists were living and working - were attacked deliberately and without warning by US forces on 8 April, killing three journalists. "The bombing of the TV station offices could not have been an error. Al-Jazeera has told US forces where all its offices in Iraq are and has hung large banners outside them marked "TV." "US officials said a US tank fired on the Palestine Hotel because rockets were being fired from it. None of the journalists there saw any such thing and said that in fact things were very quiet in the area when the tank took several minutes to adjust its gun and then fired. Film by the French TV station France 3 confirmed this version of events. "These conflicting versions require an impartial, objective and independent enquiry by the Commission you head," Ménard told Sir Keith. "These events are too serious to be left solely in the hands of an investigation by US officials, who have already refused to give any details about the killing of a British TV journalist under British-US gunfire in Basra on 22 March and the disappearance of two of his colleagues caught in the incident." US Col. David Perkins, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the Third Infantry Division, said yesterday US troops had now been told not to fire on the hotel, even if shots came from it. A spokesman for the Spanish defence ministry (one of the dead journalists was Spanish) said US-British forces had declared the hotel a military target on 6 April on grounds that Iraqi leaders were meeting there. He said US-British forces had told journalists at the hotel about this. No media or journalist appears to have been warned of the attack, contrary to the obligation set out in the Geneva Conventions to give due and effective warning. The International Humanitarian Fact-Finding Commission was set up in 1991 (based in Bern, Switzerland) under the First Additional Protocol of the Geneva Conventions and has the job of investigating any alleged serious violation of international humanitarian law. To date it has received no cases to investigate. To have jurisdiction, it has to be petitioned by one of the parties to a conflict or by one of the countries that have recognised its jurisdiction. To conduct an investigation, all the belligerents must accept its authority. Among the countries involved in the Iraq war, only Australia and the United Kingdom have formally recognised it, allowing an investigation to go ahead as far as they are concerned. The United States and Iraq have not yet accepted the principle of such an enquiry. Reporters Without Borders is keeping count on its website, www.rsf.org, of the number of journalists killed, wounded and missing while doing their job in a war that is very hard for the media to cover. WAR CRIME ? Srrh
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Post by Danny Boy on Apr 9, 2003 22:04:46 GMT -5
Justan This is the picture that is the being shown on the Arab Television Stations. Some of the comments on these same TV Stations are” The Israeli Dog has got it's Bitch in Iraq" (Arabs consider the dog a dirty animal). The stupidity of Americans never ceases to amaze me. The coverage from Arab television was never in support of Saddam, rather it was against the killing of Iraqi civilians (and solders) and the invasion of an Arab State by America. As I said in an earlier post, if you are an american, and have any sense, scrub the Middle East and Asia off you holiday destination map for the next 20 years.
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Post by eso on Apr 9, 2003 23:13:42 GMT -5
Danny Boy, It's pathetic isn't it? Or, more correctly, pathological.
If the U.N. does not have THE central role in reconstruction of the country I'll give up the idea of travelling outside the country at all for a very long time.
eso
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Post by justan on Apr 10, 2003 6:14:00 GMT -5
ESO- Americans have been the target for any radical or fundamentalist Arab group for as long as I have been alive. Why the hell should it be any different or worse now. Remember the WTC. Remember the dancing on some Arab streets. Some times it's just as dangerous staying at home. They have a hard time with the Israeli's so the next best thing is an American.
As for the French, well when have they liked Americans anyways? America has always had a negative image aboard yet most folks still want to live there. Go figure.
I guess I just don't understand the Arab mind. I'm sure they are happy that Hussein is "gone", except maybe the Palestine Arabs who just lost a source of inccome for their suicide bombers, but they are pissed that the Iraqis didn't put up more of a fight and bloody the Americans more. They are pissed because the Iraqi Army folded too quickly both in and out of the cities and now have to resort to the old tried and true terrorist methods.
Let's say 1500 Iraqi civilians die in this war. How many of these same people would have died under the deposed dictator in the next few years. I'm guessing a lot more than 1500. I know it's cold but that's the world we live in.
Even as I type this Krikuk seems to be falling as some of the Iraqi Army troops are just wandering around aimlessly seemingly stunned. The Kurds aren't even detaining them. They are just greeting and celebrating with the local folks and shooting and pounding images of Hussein.
Back to CNN
BTW Why should the UN have a central role in the reconstrution of Iraq. Humanitarian yes but I feel that the countries whose troops did the actual fighting and dying should have a central role. How much money did these countries spend to free Iraq?
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Post by Srrh on Apr 10, 2003 8:28:56 GMT -5
I guess I just don't understand the Arab mind. It is actually rather simple. 1)In the last 30 years, more arabs have been killed by american made weapons then by any other. "Made in the US, tested in the middle east" as they say. 2)Arabs leaders are hypocrits. 3)The second part of the 20th century is one of humiliation for arab states, they got their butts comprehensively kicked by israel (more then once), they are socially and scientifically 30 years behind the west and parts of asia. Their economy is shit (either oil or tourist dependant)...all in all, not a raging success. What I don't understand is why their have not been a popular up-rising in most of the middle east. Those people in charge are cold, calculating lying sacks of shit that would kill their mother, father and pretty much country in order to make an american buck. S....
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Post by justan on Apr 10, 2003 9:17:21 GMT -5
srrh If I'm reading your post correctly you just stated that George Bush and company are doing a good thing by toppling the Baath Party and giving Iraq a chance to experiment with some sort of democratic government. Say it ain't so srrh, so it ain't so Woody Guthrie Life has got a habit of not standing hitched. You got to ride it like you find it. You got to change with it. If a day goes by that don't change some of your old notions for new ones, that is just about like trying to milk a dead cow.
Winston Churchhill The whole history of the world is summed up in the fact that, when nations are strong, they are not always just, and when they wish to be just, they are no longer strong.
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Post by Danny Boy on Apr 10, 2003 10:48:49 GMT -5
Shhr you said; “What I don't understand is why their have not been a popular up-rising in most of the middle east. Those people in charge are cold, calculating lying sacks of shit that would kill their mother, father and pretty much country in order to make an american buck.” end of quote.
12 years ago there was an uprising here in Bahrain, the cause "A fairer distribution of wealth" i.e. to stop the royal family and a few favored families, having all the perks and money. Out of a population of 300,000 some15,000 were imprisoned (without trail) hundreds of these were tortured. Most of the people imprisoned were held for over 2 years, some are still there. No one knows for sure but around 1200 were believed killed, many of them whilst being tortured.
All this was done with the full knowledge and backing of America and Europe. Indeed, British SAS troops were here supporting and advising the local defense force. Both America and Briton sent “interrogation experts”. The media was aware of the "troubles" but "commercial interests" ensured that very little was made public.
And Bahrain is the most liberal and least corrupted of the Middle East Countries.
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Post by Srrh on Apr 10, 2003 11:01:49 GMT -5
srrh If I'm reading your post correctly you just stated that George Bush and company are doing a good thing by toppling the Baath Party and giving Iraq a chance to experiment with some sort of democratic government. Say it ain't so srrh, so it ain't so It is so my dear Justan. In the politics forum, there is a thread named "The US SHOULD go after Saddam" signed by yours trully. I dislike the (unilateral) way it was done, but Saddam can kiss my a***. Now, let's go liberate Tibet, Gaza, Korea, Tchetchnia and the rest, and put the likes of Ang sang Su Chi in power.... S...
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Post by Topcontender on Apr 10, 2003 11:02:33 GMT -5
yeah Syria's media never showed the statues falling, the probably just showed Danny's pic. Saudi TV had a spin on it too. I guess either people are now skeptical that we are going to dominate Iraq, or the still think it is a hollywood stunt.
Lets be honest it does not matter what the USA does we are still going to be the bad guy. Even when the arab rally call for palistine will be met we are still going to be "Zionist puppets."
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Post by eso on Apr 10, 2003 20:26:10 GMT -5
The reason I say the UN should have THE central role in reconstruction is because if the US were to control it the situation would be percieved as Colonization. No matter who handles it, it remains an act of colonization, no matter what the media would try to feed you.
Do you think for a second we'd be in there if it was another skirmish between African nations that have nothing to offer the world economy? If so you are incredibly naive.
When one looks at the history of US involvement in that region and sees how many times we've shifted aligienies and played one side against the other to further our own ends with no concern for the average citizen of these nations, I find it remarkable that we have not encountered far more terrorist activity. Only fools would try to take on our army head on.
And then there's North Korea which poses far more of a threat for weapons of mass destruction. I haven't heard a peep out of ol' George W. about neutralizing that one.
Both Saddam Hussien and Osama Bin Laden are products of US foreign policy, both having served their purpose and being cast aside have turned upon their former master and must now be neutralized. I think that mentality has something to do with distrust of US motives and meddling in that part of the world.
And we won't even get into Central and South America and the Carribean nations...
eso
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Post by Topcontender on Apr 11, 2003 8:29:49 GMT -5
Eso- most americans are saying "screw you" to the UN on rebuilding. the idea being that we dont trust the UN to handle affairs like this.
Danny- the flag in your pic has a history. It flew over the WTC. The guy who put it up was from Brooklyn NY. I am surprised that even the US media didn't cover this little aspect more
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Post by justan on Apr 11, 2003 8:52:02 GMT -5
srrh
I just checked out the website on your post about reporters. It was quite informative in a depressing sort of way.
Now, neutrality and the reporting of an war. I contend that it is impossible, especially if one's country is at war.
Each report has it's own bias and tries to promote a certain agenda and point of view. The best we can hope for is a reporting of all the facts good and bad relative to your own personal bias's.
Why did I type that? Well I read an article on their site criticing the coverage of certain well known American Media outlets as being nothing more than American Propaganda. The author is French. Even in his "attack" on these outlets he shows his bias and non-neutrality.
I didn't even broach the subject of the ownership of any media outlet and it's bottom line. That's an other story. That God or whoever, whatever for the internet.
I wonder what Marshall NcLuhan would have to say about all of this ?
TC Thanks for the info, now it makes sense
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Post by Srrh on Apr 11, 2003 9:18:17 GMT -5
I wonder what Marshall NcLuhan would have to say about all of this ? That the media IS the message... And when it come form Evil Ruppert Murdoch, the message is the appocalypse, but with "good taste".lol S...
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Post by Danny Boy on Apr 11, 2003 9:45:06 GMT -5
That the media IS the message... And when it come form Evil Ruppert Murdoch, the message is the appocalypse, but with "good taste".lol S... and big tits on page 3
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