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Post by Henrik on Mar 18, 2003 11:12:16 GMT -5
CFF,
To be honest, yes it was the tone of your "voice" in your "sarcastic" response that upset me.
I would not call that "calling a spade a spade" but I found it very insulting. My interpretation and my opinion. If you feel that my questioning events makes me some idiot, as it appears in the sarcastic post, then so be it. However, I don't believe this to be the case.
Had I posted my initial response to your post, this thread would have taken a different turn, but when it comes to posting on a forum, when the tone etc can't be properly expressed, I tend to first write things in the "heat of the moment" and keep it on my PC. Then I re-read what I have written, and usually delete the whole thing.
Our opinions are obviously different. So be it.
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Post by Cine_Man on Mar 18, 2003 12:16:31 GMT -5
You won't find many entries from me under the Politiks partition... its not a motorsports kind of thing...
Well, so much for "Canadian fairness and diplomacy"... which is why we were put on Earth, apparently.
Funny thing, I was working on a project yesterday morning, with the DoP foaming at the mouth about how the WTC towers collapsed because they were rigged with internal explosives, and continued to hold forth about how it was scientifically proven that av fuel burns at too low a temperature to melt steel.... blah, blah, blah...
I asked him if he knew anything about "Bessemer process"... [blank stare]... next time you're having a smoke, I sez, blow on it.... see if it burns "hotter" or not... its how you use low grade coke (shit coal) to smelt iron. Somebody brought up the "Moon hoax conspiracy"... and most of the detracting arguments are based on suspicion and half-baked poorly-understood concepts that the untrained have difficulty with. I'm talking specifically about the "radiation" in space, the difficulty of carrying along the moon buggy, all the silly things that have been postulated that "prove" that the Apollo program was a clever movie. If it was... well there are a lot of sites dedicated to refuting the conspiracy, too. Most of them amount to: "Yes it is Rocket Science, and its why you're not doing it."
Maybe piloting an F1 Car around Monaco at jet-fighter speeds is easy, too.
Judging the truth or validity of any event is impossible from published materials. You have to have the original, and even that may not be conclusive. Ever see the Zaparuder film? We're not even sure what speed it was shot at... and that is crucial, because everyone is timing the interval between gunshots from it... and that determines how many gunmen there might have been... one or many? Nobody can even decide which direction the bullet is coming from (definitively) that obviously, (we think) blows off JFK's head. But its also possible that he and Jackie are now off living comfortably on a secret Greek Island financed by the Onassis family, in exchange for the Heroin market in the US.
Seriously, I have a younger colleague who spent three months on the psych ward this summer (which did nothing to shake his beliefs) who has bought into this whole consipiracy thing, lock, stock, barrel, hook, line, sinker, fishing rod, reel, right up to the waders. Its sad and tragic.
Cine_...
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Post by CFF on Mar 18, 2003 12:46:13 GMT -5
As you well know Henrik, that's one of the problems with "heated" discussions on an internet thread .... Suppositions about exactly what the other person meant (or means) can often be made. Whereas if we'd been able to have this discussion live (face-to-face), I'm sure each of us would have been much more able to convey to the other just where it is we're coming from. I never intended for you to get the impression I was calling you an idiot - quite the contrary. I wasn't, and I didn't (calling you an idiot). Of course, you probably never meant to insinuate that I was an idiot or gullible either, did you ? Let's just leave it at that shall we ?? In my opinion, there were 4 large aircraft that crashed on Sept 11/01 in the USA. All went down as a result of terrorists. That's my opinion, and I hope you don't think less of me for stating it clearly. I'd also be the first to express that any other opinion is just as valid as mine. Perhaps I just haven't seen the evidence others have to be convinced that something other than what I've stated above occurred (yet). By all means ... if you or anyone else have that sort of evidence, I'd be most pleased to see it Regards, CFF
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Post by CFF on Mar 18, 2003 12:52:40 GMT -5
CFF, To be honest, yes it was the tone of your "voice" in your "sarcastic" response that upset me. Henrik: PS -- I should add that that's EXACTLY THE REASON I used the quasi-meta-tag [sarcasm on] .... just to hi-lite how sarcastic I meant to be taken. *shrug* .... I suspect even that wasn't strong enough for you to take it just that way ... as sarcasm Let's just dust this subject and get onto more friendly topics shall we ... CFF
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Post by Henrik on Mar 18, 2003 13:02:05 GMT -5
CFF,
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Post by Danny Boy on Mar 18, 2003 13:06:27 GMT -5
CFF; With all the different theories I have seen and heard on 9-11, and don't forget, I have stated on this site from summer last year that America were going into Iraq, with or without the backing of the UN. In addition I have worked in the Middle East for 24 years and supported the Palestinian cause for over 30 years. The overwhelming evidence that convinces me that 9-11 was not an Arab Plan, is "They are not clever enough, they are not coordinated enough" it's as simple as that.
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Post by who won on Mar 18, 2003 17:45:35 GMT -5
some conspiracy, as CFF pointed out the radar followed the plane into the pentagon, now either, this is the biggest cover up in the history of mankind that involved everyopne from the CIA, to the FBI to plenty of supposed eye witnesses to employees manning radar stations to the switchboard employees who take the calls placed on the phone to the workers at the pentagon, to everyone else who ever played a part including the US media which I thought was free until I came to this site. Wow what a crazy plot.
Anyone would think given some of the writings here that the US media is government controlled and that US citizens have no access to any other source of news, of course, only the Europeans have access to 'real' news.
as for the comment about the intellignece of a certain group of people, despicable though the act is, given that it did require at least some serious planning and a degree of intelligence I find your conclusion that it could not have been the arabs or palestinians therefore quite ridiculous. I wont go further into that comment but I would hope that it is at least picked up here and commented on by others.
Danny Boy, I mean this in the nicest way, but without questioning your intelligence, you are clearly not the smartest person in the universe, therefore, YOU cannot possibly conclude that an action could or could not have been committed by a race of people based up[on your experiences. Now where you to be omnipitent, I would believe you.
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Post by Danny Boy on Mar 19, 2003 4:55:03 GMT -5
CFF; if we go along with you and say that the pentagon plane was tracked throughout it's entire jorney. Then where the fcuk was The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD). They knew that the WTC had been hit, and yet they allowed the plane to fly unchalenged for a hour. If my tax $'s went towards there multi million $ budget, I would want some answers and some heads to roll.
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Post by ViveLaFrance on Mar 19, 2003 8:50:54 GMT -5
I find your conclusion that it could not have been the arabs or palestinians therefore quite ridiculous. I wont go further into that comment but I would hope that it is at least picked up here and commented on by others. That's actually the reason/excuse/justification I heard the most from Arab middle eastern people. It seems to be "accepted general street knowlege": "Arabs are not disciplined enough" or "We're not organized enough" are the ones that come back most often. Is it true? Is it a cultural cover-up? I have no idea. But if you repeat something often enough, it just might become truth. I was VERY surprised to hear an Israeli friend of mine, who is cpt. in the Army, hold the same speech. I think it's an inferiroty complex.... but I dunno... VLF
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Post by Who cares on Mar 19, 2003 9:04:04 GMT -5
the US media which I thought was free until I came to this site
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Post by Danny Boy on Mar 19, 2003 9:05:08 GMT -5
VLF; Check out this site, you may be amazed at how many Jewish people are as fed up as the rest of the world with the way their religion has been highjacked. www.eccmei.net/j/
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Post by justan on Mar 19, 2003 10:34:44 GMT -5
CFF; With all the different theories I have seen and heard on 9-11, and don't forget, I have stated on this site from summer last year that America were going into Iraq, with or without the backing of the UN. In addition I have worked in the Middle East for 24 years and supported the Palestinian cause for over 30 years. The overwhelming evidence that convinces me that 9-11 was not an Arab Plan, is "They are not clever enough, they are not coordinated enough" it's as simple as that. Two comments 1. The doctrine of preemption was written after the Gulf War when the US Government realized they had made a mistake in thinking that Hussein would be deposed. It was a battle between the cold-war doctrine of containment and the new one of preemption. Unfortunately for Bush 1 he lost the election and this new view of the world was shelved for the next eight/nine years, until Bush 2 and 911. The Hawks were finally given a opportunity to bring it back out again. Co-incidence or planned? IMHO Usamma Bin Ladin is the wild card, the reason for the strike on Iraq. Kennedy did it in the Cuban missile crisis, Israel did it when they bombed Iraq back in the 80's to stop their nuclear program. So once 911 happened and the States was awakened, it was only a matter of time before the Hawks got around to the leaders of Iraq( who co-incidently they helped put into power when the CIA orchestrated a coup of the pro Soviet government back in the 60's. The CIA gave a list of 800 names to the new regime. All these people were eventually killed, the man in charge a cookie if you guessed Saddam. The party's then resident chief thug. The man he most admires and models himself after Josef Stalin. The one time leader of the USSR. Go figure. Just a side note. In the early days under the Pro-Soviet Government he passed out a small booklet called " Three things God should not have created Persians, Jews, and flies." Should the USA attack Saddam and his tribe? I don't know. History will be the judge of that. 2. The comments on the Arabic Race sound a lot like the reasons given for using the Africans as slaves by the Europeans. Scary stuff. 3. Palestine/Israel and the Arabs part in it is a whole new thread. The only thing I can think of that comes close are the American Indians or the Blacks in South Africa, not a pretty picture. regards hoping for a quick resolution to this mess(Saddam has a epithany and leaves Iraq)
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Post by pabs on Mar 19, 2003 11:29:09 GMT -5
Danny Boy,
NORAD only tracks; they have no control over fire power. Now I know for a fact that F-15s out of Langley AFB were scrambled as soon as the WTC was hit. Other fighters from other bases were scrambled as well. That's why F-16s were seen flying over NYC soon after the attack and F-15s were flying over DC.
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Post by Srrh on Mar 19, 2003 11:37:02 GMT -5
2. The comments on the Arabic Race sound a lot like the reasons given for using the Africans as slaves by the Europeans. Scary stuff. There is quiet a difference. European were using that reason. I don't think the african slaves (except for a few house slaves) were justifing their condition like that. Here, (some) Arabs are talking about themselves (sometimes with regret in their voices)... If your an x-man and state that y-man are lazy and stupid, you're a xenophobic racist, and that's scary stuff. If your an x-man and think that x-man are lazy and stupid well, that just an opinion... Ever notice how (many) rap artists refer to each other as "niggers" ? What do you think would happen if the Dixxie Chicks did that? Srrh
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Post by pabs on Mar 19, 2003 11:39:58 GMT -5
Excellent point Srrh....excellent point
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