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Post by Wycco on Mar 21, 2002 12:55:06 GMT -5
Taken as a tangent from the Ireland Abortion Thread...
When Does an Embryo- Become a Baby?
I created this in the Meaning Of Life section rather than the Politics section as a philosophical question rather than an abortion legallity question although I imagine the two go hand in hand.
But back to the question... When Does an Embryo- Become a Baby?
What differentiates a bunch of losely bound cells from a human child?
When they can breath?
When they can think?
When they can feel pain?
My personal opinion is...
I would say a group of cells become a human the moment it has the capacity to think as a sentient being...
However I'm not sure WHEN that is? Or what defines a sentient being- there is certainly a lot of grey area...
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Post by Srrh on Mar 21, 2002 13:33:38 GMT -5
quote "I would say a group of cells become a human the moment it has the capacity to think"
Does that mean it isn't too late too abort "DoubleYou"? ;D
Did you see the the movie Kandahar, about the plight of Afghan women? I think some people never become human...
:rant:
About your standard: it sounds about right to me...that would be about 16-20 weeks.
Srrh
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Post by beefburger on Mar 23, 2002 9:26:20 GMT -5
well! I dont know!! Why do we choose to kill thinking and intelligent able bodied animals and worry about a bunch of nerve cells that have nothing more than potential for life? At a relatively advanced stage after a babies nervous system is developed it is likely it will react to discomfort and pain, but is not exaclty a thinking being until some time later! Pigs are thinking beings, and very intelligent too, more so than dogs! We have no problem farming them like they're some kind of farm animal! I dont know what I'm getting at! I used to know a pig that was even more intelligent than Dubbya! umm ok bye  |
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Post by Henrik on Mar 23, 2002 12:13:13 GMT -5
LOL @ srrh!
Why do you think that Dubya is against abortion!
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Post by Wycco on Mar 23, 2002 20:26:38 GMT -5
Beef... Someone on the F1Racing forum recently quipped: "PETA- People Eating Tasty Animals" Yum... Bambi-Burgers!!!!  |
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Post by King_Aj05 on Mar 27, 2002 19:18:11 GMT -5
hmmm I've seen ultra sounds at 6 weeks where you can see the embryo (errr embryos in my case lol)...but it's not doing much. By 12 weeks it's really quite well formed and is moving around...
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Post by King_Aj05 on Mar 27, 2002 19:23:40 GMT -5
Also think, in Aust anyway, that 12 weeks is the cut off time... I don't think they do it after that... (that's from memory only)
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Post by da_silva on Mar 27, 2002 23:35:00 GMT -5
Well personally I'm against abortion, but as I'm never going to have one it's easy to have an opinion.
I believe that if a woman decides to abort a child it should be done in the first trimester, I believe that it is the only humane time that an abortion should even be considered. There are many scientific studies done that suggest that an embryo becomes "aware" during the second trimester but that actual moment is unknown, and will probably remain so.
As I said I'm never going to have an abortion so an opinion is easy, but this issue is a total grey area, and I will continue to be pro-choice because ultimately it is the woman's body that must endure the ordeal that is pregnancy.
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Post by greg99 on Mar 28, 2002 7:22:04 GMT -5
Your Majesty,
I think in Spain the limit is 22 weeks..yep. Clinics in Barcelona are making a fortune coz they get the entire EC knocking at their doors.
I won't debate on the subject but I would tend to say that the embryo becomes a baby when the carrying mother FEELS it's a baby, a human being. The decision belongs to her and to her alone.
And I would applaude any woman who takes the decison to end her pregnancy in the best interest of her child: I prefer unborn unwanted children than born babies with a somber future. There's way too many of those around.
Complex subject, nice to hear the opinion of men though.
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Post by glendo on Mar 28, 2002 18:26:12 GMT -5
- if it is created in a petri dish, and only "lives" for a few days, is it a baby? (when it is only 16-24 cells)
- is it a baby before it's heart starts beating?
i personally think not. |
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Post by King_Aj05 on Mar 31, 2002 9:19:52 GMT -5
this is a really touchy subject to say the least!
glendo, I seem to recall our ultra sound at 6 weeks had a heart beat... it doesn't take long!
g99...hmmm that's disgraceful! (22 weeks)! At twelve odd weeks we were watching our "embryos" moving around in there!
I'm actually not against it...(abortion), but it needs to be done really early...6-8weeks...even then it is bad.
Actually I've just realised my opinions have change alot since going through having kids. It would have to be a rape type situation IMO to abort. Other reasons are hard to justify in my mind now!
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Post by JWK on Apr 1, 2002 2:34:54 GMT -5
a heartbeat signifies a living being- but not nessecarily a sentient one.
I agree that if the mother has the capacity to love the child, and has the power to ensure the protection of the child, without overwhelming health dangers- it should be kept. But if the child will grow up neglected-malnourished and unloved then it would be reasonable for the mother to abort it.
I also think that abortions should be done at an early stage- but it should ultimately be the mothers choice to decide when, as often descisions take a long time to make.
Farbeit from me, as a male observor to make judjements, when each case is individual and deserves a recognition of context and consequences, but in the end i feel the passage from embryo to baby is more in the mothers mind than a specific physical stage of passage- and should be dealt with in accordance to the situation, not a set regulation.
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Don't Die Before You Live...
I wish I could fly
