Kart advice required

[rick1776]

El Sid,

Ive caught this very late but Ill put my two cents worth in. Has your wife been out to the track to see what happens? Not sure who rules the roost in the Elsid house but I assume its the wife even if us blokes pretend its us. The reason I ask is that you dont want any heat about "her" son racing and killing himself. So get your wife comfortable with the idea. I mean its a little 7 year old were talking about rather than an adult making the decision.

The Arrows chassis was pretty good back in the mid 80's but definitely not the hot chassis to have. I cant comment about whats the latest hot chassis to have. In any case they were a good chassis so no probs there.
Made in Victoria by Drew Price Engineering.

Is the chassis youre looking at a full size chassis or a little one for the rookie/juniors? if its a full size why not mount a larger seat positioned to suit your frame. Then swap over for your son.

Ask whether the chassis is suitable for the class you wish to race in with the motor etc.

As far as parts are concerned just tell me what you want and Ill buy them here and ship them across as gifts/birthday presents. Hopefully that will avoid lots of import tax. Edwards wheels are located in Adelaide and make very nice stuff. If you want I can find out the prices and see if its worth your while to buy ex-Adelaide rather than locally.

What I found was that at every meet there were always a few people that had shit loads of money and had the best of everything. They usually raced in the upper categories. If you wanted to compete you also had to spend shitloads. Choose a lesser/base category where most others are racing for "fun" and dont spend every cent they own. The racing is just as competative. The difference between lapping at 30 seconds in a higher class and 33 seconds in the base class is irrelavant. Trust me 100-120km/h with your bum an inch of the track feels fast when you are surrounded by 5 other karts going into the same corner.

Another trick, usually every category will have weight divisions. ie light, medium and heavy. I used to race clubman. It had weights of 125kg, 135kg 145kg and 155kg. Find out what you and your kart weigh (ie lets say 137kg) and then go up one weight division into the 145kg division. You can then play around with ballast to bring you up to just over the min weight, say 146kg. You can also shift the ballast around, also the ballast is usually located as low as possible to lower your CofG.


Have fun Elsid. Oh and karts do flip so dont skimp on head gear and leathers for the little one. Having said that choose a lightweight carbon composite (I used a Bieffe, Italy) helmet rather than the heavier types. Reason is that the little guy will get pretty tired doing laps with a heavy helmet. All those G forces etc.

cheers
rick1776

[El Sid]

rick1776,

Thanks for all the good advice. You're right, the only place where I am the C.M.F.I.C.O.E. is right here in my own office. What mommy says goes. Well, fortunately not always. I have explained how everything works and she accepts. The little fella wil NOT go competitive until at least a year's kart operating and maintenance experience.

The class he will be part of is the 60cc GP Junior Class. 8 to 12 years, Allkart chassis and Comer W60 engine. And since he only turns 8 in October, he'll be sorted out kart wise for 4 years. Which is enough time to figure whether he shapes or not.

In the meantime I got hold of a Comer Operation, maintenance and Safety Manual which has very useful info. (Pretty simple really)

Just back to the Arrows chassis and the reason it is so popular here. It is NOT all that popular. I checked out on the official results for the Rotax Max series on a website I found, and saw that Arrows are Claudio Piazza-Musso's sponsor. No wonder then that he would say it is the most popular. A little sales-talk I suppose. As a matter of fact I could not see, from all the chassis used, whether there is one more popular than another. They're all there.

OK, cya then

Sid

[rick1776]

El Sid,

Was in the newsagents today and picked up an Austrailan karting magazine to see what was popular now days. They had the results of some Victorian and New South Wales championships. About 70% of the karts were Arrows, 20% Omega and the rest were Benson, Excel, Tony and Rotax and some others I had never heard of.

The junior grades were 80% Arrows and 20% Omega, no other karts! Now these meets were in the eastern states so you would expect a high percentage of Arrows karts but none the less I dont think you can go wong with an Arrows.

Interesting if you remember I said Benson made good karts for the twin motor class, well about 80% of the karts were Benson.

Hope that helps you make up your mind.

cheers
rick1776

[El Sid]

Thanks for that Rick.

Actually, I'm a bit downhearted right now. Mommy made up my mind for me. (And she's right too )

"If he get's hurt I'll divorce you"

Catch 22

Anyways, it was decided to wait another year which is OK by me.

Strangely enough, my immediate answer was going to be "OK, if he does NOT get hurt I will divorce you!". ;D Fortunately the grey matter was working @ 2GHz and weighed up the pro's and con's of such a reply on Mother's day and popped up the answer as "Not Worth It". So I get another life.

Oh well, some you lose and the other you also lose.

C'est la vie

This is going to be the first of many

[Henrik]

ElSid,

Oh well, next year then....

Still, I hope you are up for some indoor karting down in Capetown this summer (winter)!

[rick1776]

ElSid,

yes women rule the roost, we only think we do. Unless the misses is a happy little camper your life will be hell. I speak from experience. Take your wife along to a meeting to put her mind at ease. Of course it can backfire if an accident occurs. And they do!!!

I did not attend this particular meeting at my home club track but at the end of the main straight there were two right angled kinks. With a huge gravel trap, about 20 metres. Safe you would think. Well this poor unfortunate guy clipped wheels got fully airborne for most of the gravel trap and hit the fence head first. He later died from the injuries.

Not trying to scare you but it does happen. It is the only death in South Aus I think!

From memory the Rookies were not too bad speed wise with the commer and they were not too aggressive. Its when they went up to the junior level 12-15 that it became more aggressive. For the first 3 races they put you at the back of the grid with P plates until you come up to speed. Not sure if they do that in SA.

Perhaps slot car racing? Is it big over there? I mean the big 100 metre professional tracks. I once qualified 3rd for the 1978 Australian National titles. The chassis however fell apart during the race, running repair with soldering iron, and I came in a distant 8th.

cheers
rick1776


PS Good call on keeping the smart arse remark quiet on mothers day!!!!

[BrainFade]

Again, I'm late to post but here goes anyway... Sid, I think Henrik's got a good point about indoor karting. Like I was saying to you on Friday, why don't you and your kid (what's his name, BTW?) go to an indoor track and try out a couple of races? The track I go to costs R80 for 50 laps, or R40 for 20 laps.

In the next year you could achieve a few things by going indoor karting with your shorty:

1) you'll find out whether he enjoys karting, and whether he'll want to commit to it enough to warrant you forking out big dolla.

2) You'll be able to ease the missus into the idea of her precious little one behind the wheel of a speeding hunk of metal.

3) You'll get to race yourself.

I'll let you know the next time me and my mates go to the track (Indoor Grand Prix in Kenilworth). Maybe you wanna come on your own, without your kid just to check it out. I dunno...

[raptor22]

HMMMMMmm KArting plans being made? I want in on this.
Steve Windham Indoor kart circuit Or The waterfront.
Theres also a new circuit at Century City Good of r 18sec lap times.

Sid,
I feel for you. I would get the sprog into an indoor kart first but Personally I feel it is safer to get into the sport at a prpoer kart circuit with run off, well trained marshalls a dn strictly enforced rules.
As a 10yr old was pretty damn disappointed that my mom vetoed my karting plans. Dad was allfor the idea, but mum was dead against it.

Take mum to the circuoit and let her see what it's all about first. Obviously this is a knee jerk, motherly reaction toprevent her son from getting harmed.

But lets face it, The kid will probably end up playing rugby and theres more chance he'll be a paraplegic ifhe plys that than if he drives a kart.

What we need to do is sell the idea toyour wive, gradually.

Hendrik may have some video footage he could copy and pass on to you to sort of view. It will be a great way to find out if miniSid is interested or not.

See you in July,then we can discuss strategy.

[worthless]

I like BrainFade's idea. I got started in indoor karting. I know here is the States some of the indoor karts aren't as quick because the facility will add a little extra weight.

It will teach the young guy that even though those karts may look slow, it FEELS a whole lot faster.

The only thing is, most of the places I have been require that the driver is 16. Now I know that there are some places that will allow a driver to be underage with parental signature....so I would just be on the lookout for that.


Just as a side note Sid: At our local track most of the karts are Arrows and Energy (they're Italian I do believe). I also see some CNG, Birel and TrackMagic. But from what I've heard Arrows are a quality chassis. I don't know if that helps you any (now) but I'll offer it up (along with a )

Good luck.

...and here's a round for my fellow indoor karters....

[rick1776]

Worthless,

The Arrows kart is made in Australia by Drew Price Engineering. Yes indoor karting is still good fun and the power is severly compromised so that might be a good option for ElSid jr.

Ive been 4 times and have won 3 out of 4. Slightly unfair as all of my mates have never raced seriously.

The fastest way round the track is tp keep it very straight. If your going sideways with oversteer, your not going forwards!! My mates comment that I always look slow on the track (perhaps I am LOL) as I come up to lap them.

Carry a lot of speed, jag it into the corner but keep it SMOOTH and make sure you dont exit with oversteer. Look at RB's driving style. you cant half tell he drove karts!!!!

cheers
rick1776

[worthless]

You're absolutely right. Where I race there is a mix of the very experienced to the 'never-seen-a-kart-before.'

What's amusing is that my friends and I have commented several times how slow, the fastest drivers look. You are dead on - a smooth driver is a fast driver. Several of the drivers I race against were involved in that Red Bull American F1 driver search thing. One of them made it pretty far up the latter - but then they thought he was too old (he's 23 - lol).

But I think what seperates him from the rest of the usual competitors, is his throttle control. He is pinpoint accurate when picking up the throttle. He has a 'touch' to his throttle control. Where as some of the newbies have two speeds - full throttle and brake - lol.


I usually go to better myself and have a good time, not to beat those guys. They are always faster, but they have a lot more seat time.

I'm pretty good at minimizing oversteer. In fact, my problem is too much understeer. I joke with my brother that my ideal line is 6 inches passed the outside barrier - lol. The more experienced drivers tell me I pick up the throttle too early. See, I brake before the corner, then roll through the first part of the corner, and at the apex steadily ease onto the throttle so that I am at full throttle at the exit of the corner. Works well - when I do it right -lol.

[Henrik]

Not sure why, but I love this discussion!!!

Few points I want to comment on.....

With regards to the various chassis around, I think any kart racer will be unable to say what is the best chassis, primarily because there is no such thing as a best chassis! There are several producers out there that produce real quality karts, most of the names having been mentioned in the thread. The fact that in Australia you see a large number of Arrows chassis is obviously down to the fact that they are good and they are Australian. Here in Europe we have such a wide variety of locally produced chassis that I don't think you'll ever find an Arrows chassis.

I race a CRG chassis, and they are obviously one of the better producer around, as can be testified by the World Formula Super A championships in 2001 and 2002. However, you will also find in the top spots Birel, Tony Kart etc. Trulli makes a fine chassis too. The list really is endless, and the point is to find one that suits you and your wallet!

Kids at indoor tracks. You really need to check with the tracks around you. As an example, on our track we accept kids from 135cm and up. I think it is a great initiation for the kids, and once we have our karting academy running here, I think we will really be providing a necessary service to society!

Racing rental karts certainly requires being smooth, and thus looking "slow". Even the slightest slide will make you lose speed. As another anecdote, I was driving with a friend the other night at the track, and although he was good, his lap times were a bit slower than mine. But what really surprised him was that afterwards, I was not in the least tired, whereas he was all red and sweating from the 10 minutes. When in a kart, relax!! Don't fight the kart, try to flow with it.

[El Sid]

Henrik said:

Not sure why, but I love this discussion!!!

and

As another anecdote, I was driving with a friend the other night at the track, and although he was good, his lap times were a bit slower than mine. But what really surprised him was that afterwards, I was not in the least tired, whereas he was all red and sweating from the 10 minutes. When in a kart, relax!! Don't fight the kart, try to flow with it.

Henrik,

Your anecdote serves as a good philosphy to have in most, if not all, aspects of life. There is at least one case that immediately springs to mind. If you replace "kart" with "woman" in the quote above, you'll get my drift ;D

Problem with the philosophy is that you may not need a afterwards but then again I drink because I like it, not because I have to. So in my case, no matter what, I will enjoy a afterwards in any case.

[Henrik]

Hey El Sid,

I'll join you in the beer(s) after the race!

Just don't have any before......