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Post by justan on May 22, 2003 11:26:33 GMT -5
Hmmm. PS Justan; who is Joseph ? (and Eddie for that matter)? I remain, Srrh lol bad joke Took me awhile, goes back to a thread on F1 live but here it is da Silva is not fond of the hockey Leafs, I am that was about Curtis Joseph blowing it in Detroit and Eddie the Eagle doing it for TO
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Post by Srrh on May 22, 2003 12:48:01 GMT -5
Rabin? he was shot by an israeli extremist, but this guy had virtually no popular support. Are you trying to say the elections were rigged ? Because I fail to see how he got elected without popular support... Or are you saying it's OK to shoot someone if he has no popular support ? I also really don't understand the use of the word "but": "he was shot by an israeli extremist BUT"...does it mean that those with popular support usually do get shot at ? Either way....seems to me I'd take an unpopular Rabin over more-popular-then-christ-and-lennon-together Ariel Sharon any given day... once a butcher, always a butcher... Did I say butcher? I meant soldier... Justan: Ohhhh. A hockey joke. No wonder I didn't get it. The only hockey joke I get is the MTL Canadiens.lol S.
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Post by who on May 22, 2003 14:20:24 GMT -5
No
I'm talking about the guy who shot Rabin having no popular support, perhaps there were some who rejoiced in Rabins death in Israel as it would put an end to the peace process, but the vast majority were of course sickened and saddened. I'm not trying to lead any conclusions, or maybe I am, but it seemed the previous post was attempting to draw a parallel level of hatred on both sides for the peace process.
Whatever, most on both sides to have a level of hatred toward each other, but I dont think its unfair to say that the Palestinian suicide bombers have far more popular support than should make anyone comfortable and makes achieving any kind of peace rather difficult when murders are approved.
And before we say the Israeli army murders too, I dont think they are comparable to suicide bombing and as the Amnesty international report mentioned on this thread above points out most are what they consider legal combatants. Amnesty is not known for its pro israeli position.
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Post by Srrh on May 22, 2003 15:06:18 GMT -5
1)I'm talking about the guy who shot Rabin having no popular support 2)I dont think its unfair to say that the Palestinian suicide bombers have far more popular support than should make anyone comfortable. 3)And before we say the Israeli army murders too, I dont think they are comparable to suicide bombing and as the Amnesty international report mentioned on this thread above points out most are what they consider legal combatants. 4) Amnesty is not known for its pro israeli position. 1)D'uh. Sorry. I didn't read it that way... 2)No actually I think it's pretty acurate. But isn't it because they see their own cause as so "just" ? Is it not easier to exercise "self-sacrifice" in order to defend one's home land then when attacking someone else's. How can one not have popular support when one is branded a martyr? 3)Most are. True. But some are 2 year old girls.... 4)No, Not really. Historically, amnesty always sided with the "Davids" when faced with "Goliaths". Even if the "David" in question turned out to be a twisted mother-less fuck... Good to read from you. s.
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Post by Srrh on May 22, 2003 15:10:55 GMT -5
Errr, I realize that "David & Goliath" might not be a good example when talking about Israel, since in the bible, David IS israel...lol
Replace "David" by the weak/small, and "Golitath" by the strong...In other words, Amnesty has a history if sidding with the weaks!!!
Wich btw is why I love them so!!!
s.
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Post by Henrik on May 22, 2003 16:03:57 GMT -5
I would agree that the extremist who assasinated Rabin does not have much support in Israel. However what does bother me is how Sharon will far too often go along with the ultra orthodox in order to maintain his position. That is wrong, and will never lead in the direction of a peacful resolution. At the same time one can say that as long as Arafat is seen as the leader of the Palestinians, there will be no advancement towards peace from that side eaither.
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Post by smokingun on May 23, 2003 4:38:04 GMT -5
In other words, Amnesty has a history if sidding with the weaks!!! a weak suicide bomber?? a weak terrorist?? yeah i see it all so clearly now. hehe amnesty are a scam. and their fallacy has been their undoing. nobody gives a shit any more what they say. all they do is issue headline grabbing statements. sadly being so ineffective only serves to make governments more brazen. sadly amnesty in serving their own self inflated egos have done more damage to the cause of human rights than the governments have. smokingun
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Post by Srrh on May 23, 2003 9:10:51 GMT -5
amnesty are a scam. and their fallacy has been their undoing. nobody gives a shit any more what they say. all they do is issue headline grabbing statements. sadly being so ineffective only serves to make governments more brazen. sadly amnesty in serving their own self inflated egos have done more damage to the cause of human rights than the governments have. Historically, the main focus of Amnesty International's campaigning has been: ·to free all prisoners of conscience ·to ensure a prompt and fair trial for all political prisoners ·to abolish the death penalty, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment ·to end extrajudicial executions and "disappearances" ·to fight impunity by working to ensure perpetrators of such abuses are brought to justice in accordance with international standards Amnesty International is independent of any government, political ideology, economic interest or religion. It does not support or oppose any government or political system, nor does it necessarily support the views of the victims whose rights it seeks to protect. To ensure its independence, it does not seek or accept money from governments or political parties for its work in documenting and campaigning against human rights abuses. Its funding depends on the contributions of its worldwide membership and fundraising activities. Before any statement or report is issued, its text is approved within the International Secretariat to ensure it is accurate, politically impartial and falls within Amnesty International's mandate. Amnesty International is often dealing with allegations rather than undisputed facts. It makes this plain and usually calls for an investigation of the allegations. If Amnesty International makes a mistake, it issues a correction. Amnesty International's research is recognized as reliable and is widely consulted by governments, intergovernmental organizations, journalists, scholars, other human rights organizations and campaigning groups. "We could always tell when international protests were taking place... the food rations increased and the beatings were fewer. Letters from abroad were translated and passed around from cell to cell, but when the letters stopped, the dirty food and repression started again." Released prisoner of conscience, Viet Nam "...if there's lots of pressure – like from Amnesty International or some foreign countries – we might pass them on to a judge. But if there's no pressure, then they're dead." Former torturer, El Salvador "I was on the verge of total collapse and desperation before I was introduced to you, but you gave me strength and courage to go on." Relative of a released prisoner of Conscience, Swaziland "It's a worn cliche, but if Amnesty did not exist, it would have to be invented. It is simply unique." Jean-Pierre Hocke, former United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees But the thank-you SG for shedding some light on my actions. I've apparently been woring on my own ego for over 15 years...Shit, and to think I thought I was helping others...while I was just lying, bullshiting and serving propaganda to help terrosits. Me and my terrosist brothers are in shame. Srrh
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Post by smokingun on May 25, 2003 7:00:32 GMT -5
srrh, i am sorry that you took offence at my last post. it was not intended to hurt your feelings. all that you write about AI looks very noble and no doubt a lot of good has been done. just remember one thing: i am a human too. i have a right to live a life free of fear. i have a right to expect that my governement is doing everything it can to protect me and other innocent people against terrorists. somewhere along the way AI seems to have made the terrorists lives and rights more important than mine. i am sorry but that is the way that i see it. i am sorry that you got hurt, but i stand by what i said.
mario
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Post by JWK on May 26, 2003 1:30:15 GMT -5
Anyone see the conference with the French and Israeli representatives?
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Post by Topcontender on Jun 2, 2003 8:55:42 GMT -5
Israel will dismantle only some of the more than 100 settlement outposts in the West Bank, Israeli officials said Monday, underscoring the difficulty Israelis and Palestinians are having in reaching agreement ahead of a summit with President Bush (news - web sites).
The thorny disputes — over the outposts, a Palestinian crackdown on militant groups and recognition of Israel as a Jewish state — have hampered efforts to agree on a joint declaration to be released at the end of the summit
And the band plays on. Same shit over and over. Sharone will likely use this settlement card to pull out of the negotiations, and all hell will break loose. Well Bush might have to tell Areil that more economic sanctions will come if he does not comply.
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Post by JWK on Jun 11, 2003 2:20:06 GMT -5
Looks as if the "roadmap for peace" has fallen on it's arse again... Suicide bomb followed by Hellicopter gunship missile attack, to inevitably be followed by more hamas action, which will justify Israeli occupancy of Palestinian "owned" land, which will justify more terrorist action...etc etc... *sigh*
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Post by daSilva on Jun 11, 2003 9:45:04 GMT -5
Looks as if the "roadmap for peace" has fallen on it's arse again... Suicide bomb followed by Hellicopter gunship missile attack, to inevitably be followed by more hamas action, which will justify Israeli occupancy of Palestinian "owned" land, which will justify more terrorist action...etc etc... *sigh* A few days of hope, now gone!
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Post by Henrik on Jun 11, 2003 10:23:13 GMT -5
I hate to say it again, but with Sharon and Arafat still around, how can anybody possibly have any hope for peace?
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Post by RacerX on Jun 11, 2003 10:31:27 GMT -5
Plese peole...who the hell said this would be easy?
This is going to be a loooooooooong road, and it won't happen over night. Even WHEN Bush's road map goes through, you will still have problem groups, fanatics, that must be filtered out of society.
Anger, hate...these feelings are very strong & take GENERATIONS to filter out. I think Palestine NEEDS a state recognised by the rest of the world, that way they too can step up to the offering plate & receive billions from the great country of hand outs...LOL...(OK, a bit of sarcasm there)...but seriously it needs to have a state.
Both Isreal & Palestine will need to be treated as equals by all countries. One exception...
If Palestine were to try and force the US to give more support their way, kind of like pitting the two against each other, then the US again will continue to support Isreal.
This is for a reason. A very simple reason. (TC, and answer to your question coming up...pay attention.)
Actually, this is kind of funny. I felt like TC when I was in highschool, following politics. I was pissed off that the US government was sending literally BILLIONS of dollars at the start of every year to a country where I have no ties whatsoever. (Or so I thought...)
As I became more involved with my religion, the answer slapped me right upside the head. Our Bible tells us that the "Jews" (I hate using that word by the way...It seems like both a "badge of courage" and a racist slang like calling a black person a N...you know the word.)
Anyway, back to the topic...
The Bible tells us that those of the Jewish faith are his (God's) chosen people, and that those whom support them will be blessed. TC, THAT is why this country continues to support Isreal. Period.
This country was founded by God fearing Christians. As much as many would like this NOT to be true, it is rooted in our heritage. If you look at the history of this country, you'll see that it HAS BEEN BLESSED. When this country was barely 200 years old, we'd accomplished more than most nations that have been around for many, many more years. For the most part, are people were blessed, hard working good people.
Note: What I mean by blessed is that the people of the country in general, live in pretty good means. Hell, poverty in this country is consider as people who earn less than $16K per year! If you earn less than $24K, you don't PAY TAXES!!!!) WTF? That's POVERTY?
We don't know what REAL POVERTY is!!! Real poverty is not being able to own a TV. Not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Having NO direction at all, only worrying about simple survival from day to day. Now remember, I'm talking in GENERAL terms here.
Back to the subject at hand...
Anyway, I have sensed that as this country continually shy's from Christianity, continually tries to kick God out of Schools, government, etc, that the blessings bestowed on this country will continue to shrink.
When we(the people of this country)feel we've become greater than God or no longer need God, then we'll no longer be the blessed country I speak of, for surely the people will then no longer feel a need to support Isreal.
I personally hope I'm not around to see this day happen.
Now, don't get too carried away, I'm not saying this country is the greatest ever...It's by far Utopia...far far off from Utopia.
Lately it seems the general population of this country care more about worshipping the almighty DOLLAR than God. Look at the evil this brings...
Corporate officers are literally STEELING from the very people that give them a reason to work...LOL..if you can call what they do work!
Oh man, I'm getting waaaaaaaaay into tooooooo many topics here at one time. I need a chill pill...
Wuff, I guess you can see just how complicated & complex these issues can be. They're sooooooooooo sooooooooo incredibly difficult. You're talking about two very different religions having to come together & learn how to get along. This will NOT be easy, period. And it will take years, many years for each side to learn to respect & tolerate each other.
Once they BOTH start acting like civil humans, then the job will be easier. BUT as long as groups like Hammas are around, you can almost forget about peace. Note, I said ALMOST! I think, eventually, that these poeple will tire of the killings, once enough of them are killed themselves.
Kind of sickening...
OK, enough rambling.
Later, RacerX
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