|
Post by who won on Dec 21, 2002 14:30:35 GMT -5
"The very meaning of freedom, is choice"
whose choice Danny Boy?
The choice of the dictators and military leaders who control the country for their own person gain and at times crazed ideas? or is freedom supposed to also be for the people forced to live under the dictator?
If freedom really is your concern then getting rid of leaders who do not embrace freedom for its people ahould also be an ideal should it not?
The political destiny of a country as you call it can also be hijacked by people who although native to the country concerned are not there to serve it but to serve themselves no matter the consequences for the people.
If the Iraqi people, Kurds and all, were on the whole happy living under Sadaam you would have a point.
|
|
|
Post by daSilva on Dec 21, 2002 18:21:50 GMT -5
DB,
Name the last President who was Jewish.
You're full of shit! Merry Christmas, a Christian celebration.
|
|
|
Post by Danny Boy on Dec 22, 2002 2:26:24 GMT -5
Only 12% of Americans voted for G Bush, does this mean he should be overthrown by a foreign power?
The last jewish president was Lyndon Johnson, the next will be when the Democrats win a US election and he will assume the presidency on the death of the Democrat who actually won that election.
However, you still are not reading what I write! I did not say any American President was jewish, what I did say was that the people who decide who will stand for the presidency, then decide what actions the President takes when in power, are (mainly) jewish. The president himself is just a puppet of the real power brokers, why do you think Kennedy was shot or Nixon was impeached? If you want to have an insight to power politics there are many books on the subject, however for entertainment, I suggest you read, “Unholy Alliance” by David Yallop.
|
|
|
Post by who won on Dec 22, 2002 11:50:16 GMT -5
Change Danny Boys Jewish angst to 'I have a rpoblem with some Blacks' instead of "I have a problem with some Jews" and see how ridiculous your acceptance of his racism is. Personally though, I would like to know just how Jewish Condaleeza Rice is as well as Rumsfeld or Cheney or Powell, as far as I know they are the main policy makers but what do we know, you know the real truth. Back to your very strange thesis on freedom. You stated that freedom was about choice, I asked what choice the Iraqi people had in choosing their government and you tell me that only 12% of people voted for Bush. So what??? I don't know if 12% is true or not, perhaps its at least in the right ball park given the percentage who CHOSE to vote. The debacle in Florida aside, the people have a choice to make. They can choose between candidates or they can choose no one. And whatever criticism you may have of the democracy system it is there for the people. And whatever the number of people who choose to vote they have that choice. And every attempt is made every year to encourage as many people to vote as possible. The system is not perfect, no system is perfect but please don't find holes in a system of democracy as justification for the system of dictatorship in Iraq. As you said, freedom is about choice, in the US we have a choice, and that includes a choice to not vote. we have a choice to speak out about our government, we have a choice to protest, we have a choice to stay at home and do nothing. In Iraq, they have a choice to stay quiet or perhaps be murdered as a dissenter. Don't try and draw parallels with the US and Iraq.
|
|
|
Post by daSilva on Dec 22, 2002 12:10:22 GMT -5
The last jewish president was Lyndon Johnson, the next will be when the Democrats win a US election and he will assume the presidency on the death of the Democrat who actually won that election. Lyndon Johnson was Jewish, where did you get that steaming pile of crap from? Furthermore, you're suggesting that the next Democratic president will be assasinated. Wow what is the colour of the sky in your world? Religion and President Johnson Compiled by the LBJ Library Staff President Johnson was baptized in 1923, in the Pedernales River at a site approximately seven miles downstream from the LBJ Ranch, while attending a summertime revival meeting service of the First Christian Church of Johnson City. Johnson had been exposed to the preaching and teaching of his mother's Baptist congregation; however, he independently decided that the beliefs of the Disciples were in accord with his own views, and, on that basis, he became, and remained, a member of the Disciples of Christ. The President considered the First Christian Church in Johnson City as his "home church." In Washington, D.C., he regarded the National City Christian Church as his "home church," and he frequently worshipped there. President Johnson would frequently attend services at churches of different denominations. He would accompany Mrs. Johnson who is Episcopalian, often worshiping at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Washington, D. C. He would also attend the Mass at Catholic churches with his daughter Luci. While often going to his own church in Texas, the First Christian Church, he also attended Trinity Lutheran Church and Saint Francis Xavier Church, both in Stonewall, Texas. Rebekah Baines Johnson, the President's mother, was a Baptist, as were most of her ancestors for several generations. She once expressed the view that she was "grateful for...my Baptist upbringing, sermons, prayer-meeting and Sunday School." She described her father -- a leading member of the Baptist Church in Blanco -- as a Baptist "strict in doctrine, broad in charity, large in enterprise," who was frequently heard to say proudly, "I am a Baptist and a Democrat." President Johnson's great-grandfather, George Washington Baines, Sr., was one of the best-known Baptist leaders in the early history of Texas. Reverend Baines accepted a Baptist pastorate in Texas at Huntsville where, incidentally, he was the pastor for the Texas hero, General Sam Houston. He was chosen in 1861, to be President of Baylor University, then and now the leading Baptist institution of higher education in Texas and the Southwest. The President's grandfather, Sam Ealy Johnson, Sr., was raised as a Baptist. Subsequently, in his early manhood, he became a member of the Christian Church. In his later years, he affiliated with the Christadelphians. According to Lady Bird Johnson, President Johnson's father, Sam Ealy Johnson, Jr., also joined the Christadelphian Church toward the end of his life. President Johnson frequently quoted the Bible to illustrate points that he wanted to make. His favorite quotation was from Isaiah 1:18, "Come now, and let us reason together."
|
|
|
Post by Srrh on Dec 24, 2002 10:51:35 GMT -5
For X-mas, I 'll leave you with this paraphrase of M.Twain: "Who cares if you are black or white, Jewish or Christians, the fact that you are men is reason enough for me to hate you"
hahaha. Danny Boy's got a point...but as "who won" stated, who's choice are we talking about here? The iraqi silent majority?
And remember, if you fall for the "if you'r not with me, you're against me" bull shit, they won...
And they're not going to win. Not on my watch.
Senna Rules Roads in Heaven.
|
|
|
Post by glendo on Dec 26, 2002 3:02:41 GMT -5
nonetheless, the arab world will stand by Saddam before they stand by israel.. whether he is evil or not.. he is one of them, something israel is not. they will support one of their own over an outsider. pure and simple.
|
|
|
Post by JWK on Jan 1, 2003 7:12:56 GMT -5
id just like to pick up on an early point, and im just throwing ideas into the wind "Danny, we get your point, but ask yourself " would Iraq be better without Saddam and with a democracy?" Sharone is a bastard, but we know he will get the boot one day, Saddam will never get the boot, unless he gets a bullet or old age gets him. " Yes iraq would be better off without Saddam, a damn sight better in the short term- but that democracy you mentioned- most likely a leader would to be of ethnic majority- not the 17% minority that runs in saddams blood. The same majority that holds majority rule in Iran- i fear a democratic leader would do well in the short term- but when it came to a democratic election and the puppet was ousted by a leader the people choose, ties with the traditional enemy in Iran would never have been stronger- with the people on both sides of the border gaining mutual goals and mindsets. Just look at what is happening in Korea- the people of the north and south, bitter rivals are now making ties stronger then they have been in a long while- all the while there are 20,000 strong demonstrations calling for U.S troops to be ousted from the streets of Sth Korea. I am not claiming the two are in any way close to peace, but old wounds are beginning to heal between two sides of the same people. Would we really want two of the "main sponsors of terror" that much closer?- Just something to think about... "Merry Christmas, a Christian celebration" ...But Da_Silva... i thought christmas was invented by coke?? ;D
|
|
|
Post by Danny Boy on Jan 1, 2003 10:03:58 GMT -5
JWK good to see you back with your input. What I am saying is, yes Sadam is not the ideal leader but their are many countries that have bad leadership to the detriment of the population, and possibly the world. However, we tread a very slippery path when we let America, or it's cronies, dictate who should govern where.
|
|
|
Post by JWK on Jan 1, 2003 18:48:42 GMT -5
danny boy, just in case i diddnt make it clear, that post was not aimed specifically at you, i was using a much earlier quote and rebuking on a point, but yeah, i see your angle, and its good to be thinking again ;D
|
|
|
Post by Srrh on Mar 18, 2003 10:41:40 GMT -5
The only flaw (I think) in my reasoning is collateral dammges. But if the US could take out Saddam with a bullet... I stand by my original thought: Saddam and Bush...one is bound to leave, if we're lucky, both.... But I we're witnessing another collateral damage: the UN is rendered, once again, completly useless. Bring on the league of Nations... S....
|
|