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Post by CFF on May 6, 2003 12:06:17 GMT -5
The Earth spins (BTW, as far as I know the moon does not and neither does it have a magnetic field) and has a magnetic field. I am sure that all the other planets in our solar system also have magnetic fields in the same sort of orientation/configuration as earth. Would it be far fetched to imagine that all of the heavenly bodies have these magnetic fields overlapping each other in varying degrees as a result of a dynamic cosmos. My question is this: Does the cosmos not generate energy in this way? (don't ask me what kind or what happens to it!) ElSid - I'll leave the Chandler (Earth's) wobble for another time - let's just talk magnetism for a moment. First, let me clarify that indeed, the Earth's moon does spin (rotate) on it's axis. It just does it much slower than does the earth (in fact, one 'Moon' day (rotation) takes exactly the same time as it does for the moon to orbit the Earth (28 days)). Which is why we never see the far side *drum roll .... Dark Side* of the moon from earth. Second, as far as other planetary bodies (planets & moons) in our solar system having magnetic fields, here's what's currently known: - Our sun has a dipole mag. field (same as Earth) which is approx 100 times the strength of Earth's (sun's field measures 50 gauss)
- The only planet in our solar system that does NOT have a magnetic field is Venus (all other planets except Pluto have had their fields measured by at least one space probe ... Pluto to this point has yet to be visited by Earth technolgy, so the jury is still out)
- Our moon does NOT have a magnetic field, but rocks on the surface show a patchwork of residual magnetism
- The mag field of Mars is weak but detectable (until about 1998, it was thought Mars had no magnetic field at all)
- Jupiter has a complex magnetic field that is 10 times the strength of the Earth's. Rather than a 'dipole' field like the sun & Earth, Jupiter's field is an 'octopole'. At least 4 of Jupiter's largest moons (and there are 58 at last count) have magnetic fields
- Uranus, which rotates on an axis that is 90 degrees from 'normal', has a magnetic field, but its field lines eminate from axis which are nearly 90 degrees from the axis of rotation (all other planetary bodies have magnetic axis which are much closer to rotational axis)
As to your question - does the 'cosmos' generate energy thru all this magnetism? I'll be honest - magnetism isn't one of my interests, and I don't have anywhere near the background to answer that with any credibility. I will say that IMF (Interplanetary Magnetic Field) extends from our sun throughout the solar system, but weakens significantly over distance. I don't have Maxwell's equations in front of me, but I suspect if you looked at the 'big picture' of our entire solar system (in terms of magnetic forces), there would likely be some interesting theories which you could pursue. You could switch careers, and make a life's work out of it!! More later on wobble .... CFF
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Post by raptor22 on May 6, 2003 15:50:23 GMT -5
The wobble we're talking about, is this the 25000 yr precession?
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Post by CFF on May 6, 2003 18:17:18 GMT -5
The wobble we're talking about, is this the 25000 yr precession? Raptor - No, the Chandler wobble they're discussing is the 430 day axial movement. The Precession of the Equinox you're referring to is the observed phenomenon whereby the equinoctial point moves backward through the constellations of the Zodiac at the rate of 50.29 arc seconds annually. At this rate the entire precession cycle time required to traverse all twelve constellations of the ancient Zodiac, is 25,770 years, although there is evidence this is declining. There are some that would suggest (recently) that our solar system has a binary star, and our sun is gravatationally bound to the second dark companion, which is estimated to be 1000 to 4,000 A.U. distant. Makes you wonder doesn't it ? CFF
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Post by raptor22 on May 7, 2003 8:44:12 GMT -5
so the chandler wobble is a theory which hypothesises that there exists a smaller wobble within the greater one and that this is due to the earths surface being fluid and hence creates a sort of delayed reaction to the displacement of this fluid which manifests itself as the Chandler wobble.
A point on the Earths Precession commonly know as Equinocial precession; if the precession is declining then:
a) why is the rotation velocity decreasing? Should it not be speeding up. Is it not due to the earth reaching the turning point in this equinocial cycle?
b) Would the Chandler wobble not be a result of the centre of balance between the moon /earth orbits being located within hte earths mantle and not along it's rotational axis?
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Post by El Sid on May 7, 2003 9:21:47 GMT -5
At this point I must say this thread is really mind boggling. And just when I thought it would be an open and shut case, it just seems to go on and new ideas pop up. It is said that if you sing to yourself, it's OK. If you speak to yourself it's also OK. And if you argue with yourself you should'nt be too concerned. But if you argue with yourself and lose the argument, then you're in serious trouble. That's about how I feel after reading everything here.
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Post by CFF on May 7, 2003 10:00:12 GMT -5
if the precession is declining then: a) why is the rotation velocity decreasing? Should it not be speeding up. Is it not due to the earth reaching the turning point in this equinocial cycle? Raptor: To answer your first question regarding the Precession cycle slowing, I refer you to the following hypothesis: www.newfrontiersinscience.com/Members/v02n01/a/NFS0201a.htmlIt suggests, among other things, that: - Our Sun is probably part of a binary system, gravitationally bound to another star, likely a dark companion, which is estimated to be 1000 to 4,000 A.U. distant.
- The Sun’s path currently curves at about 50.29 arc seconds per year (one degree every 71.5 years) around its apparent binary center of mass, and the Sun is now accelerating, at the approximate rate of 0.000349 (arc seconds per year) per year.
- The apparent binary orbit plane is expected to be the same as, or within a few degrees of, the invariable plane (the angular momentum plane of the solar system).
- The Earth’s changing orientation to inertial space (as required by any binary orbit of our Sun), can be seen as Precession of the Equinox. This fact has been masked by the lunisolar explanation of precession.
- The current apparent binary orbit speed is one cycle every 25,770 years, but due to acceleration (as we move away from apoapsis), is expected to average approximately 24,000 years per complete orbit.
- Models based on Kepler’s Law for elliptical orbits appear to predict the changing precession rate better than current wobble theory.
- The third motion of the Earth (wobble) does exist as an observable phenomenon, but not as axial movement relative to the Sun. Independent axial movement is probably limited to nutational nodding and Chandler wobble.
CFF
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Post by RacerX on May 7, 2003 23:31:13 GMT -5
WOW...I can't believe I've missed out on this monster...OK, let me see if I have this straight....
...H'mmm...well, uhhh......errr, uhm...
OK, could you guys repeat that?
ROFLMAO, RacerX
P.S. Sorry to interrupt...carry on, please.
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Post by raptor22 on May 8, 2003 4:05:02 GMT -5
where the hell have you been???
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Post by RacerX on May 8, 2003 23:47:49 GMT -5
ROFL...Hey Raptor, thanks for the beer! It's a loooooong story, but work has pretty much filtered out all "non-work related" web-sites. Prior to that, my computer at work would lock up everytime i tried to navigate Shamu Croaks. It was real strange. I could navigate ALL over the web, but it always locked up when I'd come here. So...now I'm relegated to posting at nights, after I've helpped all the kids do their homework, and assisted the misses with any of her needs...LOL! Anyway, it's good to be back. I've reallt missed this place. Thanks again & beers back at ya, RacerX
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Post by daSilva on May 9, 2003 10:43:38 GMT -5
Truth is he was confined to the Monster on F1-live because he thought it would be funny to leave some of his sox lying around Shamu! ;D CFF, thanks for all the great info!
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Post by raptor22 on May 9, 2003 17:07:29 GMT -5
Hey Racer, it's really been a while. Glad youcame running home. Always time for a beer mate, or better a Bourbon or even bettter and Glenmorangie, Kagavulin or Laphroig single malt, aged for 15yrs and loving bottled Have'nt seen you around Bikeforum.net either. There were some interesting debates on Aluminium vs Steel. Hope you kept up. you saw me 3 and I'll raise you 3
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Post by Cine_Man on May 14, 2003 15:02:18 GMT -5
Good god CFF you know stuff.... uh so you wouldn't happen to be Alan Dyer by any chance? I'm a member of RASC Edmonton.
I'm wondering if there is a tendency for near-orbiting bodies to take on the characteristics of their partners, for instance, the "moon day" locked to its orbital period around the earth.
Or is that a vestige of the angular momentum of the constituents of what made up the moon if it was a chunk of mass knocked out of the earth by another passing body, according to one popular theory. Humbly, cine_...
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Post by CFF on May 14, 2003 21:35:06 GMT -5
CM -- *LOL* ... no ... I'm not Alan Dyer, nor am I a member of the RASC (although I should be - I have a nice little 5" SC Celestron). In fact, there is a tendancy for satellites to be phase-locked (also called tidal-locked) to the planets they orbit. Check out this site, you'll find that besides our moon, there are many moons in our solar system with the same properties (both of Mars' moons, at least 6 of Jupiter's, 9 of Saturn's, 5 of Uranus', 1 of Neptune's, and Pluto's only moon) www.solarviews.com/eng/data1.htmWhile simplistic, the easiest way to explain this is TIDAL FORCE. The Earth has a tidal force due to it's ocean, but also a tidal distortion of the entire planet (the land and everything underneath). The earth is deformed by a 'tidal force' exerted on it by the sun & the moon. If a moon has two opposed permanent tidal bulges, it will be most stable if one of them is always pointed towards its parent planet. CFF
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